Why "I don't exist" is false

[WokeBloke]

First let's observe the fact that the user of language (UOL) exists. If the UOL did not exist then this sentence would not exist. The UOL uses language when thinking, writing, and speaking. The UOL is the only one that can deny it's own existence since the denial of its existence requires words. In order for the UOL to claim that the UOL does not exist it first needs to exist.

 

Now notice that the UOL calls itself the UOL. In addition the UOL is the only one that uses the pronoun "I". The UOL also defines the pronoun "I". 

 

My definition of I is that it is a reference by its user to its user. Keep in mind the user of "I" is not a word.

So thus the claim "I do not exist" is false because it equates to "the user of language does not exist" which I already proved was false.

[Mason Riggle]

Typically when people say, 'I don't exist' or 'the Self doesn't exist', what is really being said, is that there is no 'distinct' or 'separate' self which exists apart from 'that which is not I or Self'. 

So.. the Self or 'I' exists, it's just not what it typically thinks it is.. some 'separate' self.  The 'self' or 'I' is the totality of whatever there is. 

The Universe is the User of Language.  It's doing it right now. 

Consider what's going on when a knife cuts through a watermelon.. is the knife 'the cutter of watermelon' or is the person holding the knife 'the cutter of watermelon'?  

It's all of it, you see.. 

'the cutter' isn't some separate distinct 'thing' you can point to, apart from Everything. 

 

[Shambhu]

@WokeBloke The "no self" teachings, when properly applied, show you that you are not anything that can be perceived.  When you search for the self, you discover that it is unfindable in the world, body, or mind.  For example, if you claim that it is the body, then which part?  All of it?  Then what happens when someone has a part damaged or removed?  What happens when all the cells are regenerated in 10 years?  The same inquiry can be done with the mind.  "You" do exist, just not in the way that you have imagined.

[Federico del pueblo]

Existence does exist.

You are existence, so you exist.

[Tim R]

@WokeBloke

I've said it time and time again, you're caught up in words, sentence structures and ideas / concepts, and you're confusing that with reality. It's time for you to let go of the concepts and start to see reality without them. Philosophy can only get you to a certain point, but your're trying to take it with you into a realm where it can't serve you anymore. 

[Kksd74628]

You guys are just hilarious ;D It's fun that self-defence mechanisms are so strong that even when "I" is not possible to be found it is still believed to be somewhere. What word glass mug means is something which is not located when it is broken. You wouldn't call the glass pieces as glass mug, because that thing does not exist anymore as it was. Same way when "I" is not here like it is defined then it simply is not here. Get over it  

[Carl-Richard]

What exactly is the UOL? Is it more like a physical thing or merely a conceptual thing? What exactly makes up the UOL?

[WokeBloke]

@Carl-Richard Well it's definitely non-conceptual due to the fact that language is being used. The problem if I want to talk about myself I need to use words. So I am attempting to describe a nonword with words which can only go so far.

[WokeBloke]

22 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

You guys are just hilarious ;D It's fun that self-defence mechanisms are so strong that even when "I" is not possible to be found it is still believed to be somewhere. What word glass mug means is something which is not located when it is broken. You wouldn't call the glass pieces as glass mug, because that thing does not exist anymore as it was. Same way when "I" is not here like it is defined then it simply is not here. Get over it  

If neither you nor no one exists then there really is no reason to try to convince a nonexistent I to stop believing in itself.

[Kksd74628]

@WokeBloke

Point is not to convince I that there is no I. Point is to change the movie that is playing - there where movie includes this text - to play it so that it is not presenting "I" anymore in any way. And the point of that is just to see that "I" is something that is not needed in order that movie to be. Sorry, but can't say it any simpler still having this exact message in it unchangeable.

ps. check DM

[Carl-Richard]

57 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

@Carl-Richard Well it's definitely non-conceptual due to the fact that language is being used. The problem if I want to talk about myself I need to use words. So I am attempting to describe a nonword with words which can only go so far.

My point is that if you were to investigate what UOL is made out of, it's firstly not just one thing (it's many things), and it's secondly not a thing at all (because it's a concept). Concepts are made up.

[IamYou]

11 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

My point is that if you were to investigate what UOL is made out of, it's firstly not just one thing (it's many things), and it's secondly not a thing at all (because it's a concept). Concepts are made up.

You may say there are many parts to the UOL but all those parts are acting as one. And also if it were conceptual then there would be no thoughts, speech, or writing. Without the UOL the idea of a UOL would not exist.

[Carl-Richard]

29 minutes ago, IamYou said:

And also if it were conceptual then there would be no thoughts, speech, or writing. Without the UOL the idea of a UOL would not exist.

In what way is the UOL distinct from say the language it produces?

[VeganAwake]

Not talking about the apparent separate physical body....

There is a conditioned body that can learn to speak; jump out of the way of a moving train; turn its head when its name is called and prefer coffee over tea.....but it's totally empty!

The illusory part is that sticky centered sense of individuality within that body that claims to be the doer and thinker of thoughts.

The arising of the illusory individual within the body blankets reality with concepts of meaning, purpose and value and the belief that all phenomena has something to do with this big important ME character. 

 

 

"Awakening is the disentangling from the socially conditioned matrix of mind known as ME"

- Samadhi (Maya illusion of the self)

❤ 

 

 

 

[IamYou]

@Carl-Richard Creations can't create themselves. They require something more fundamental to bring them into existence. The UOL is not what it produces.

[IamYou]

@VeganAwake Is there a user of language in your opinion?

[Carl-Richard]

11 minutes ago, IamYou said:

@Carl-Richard Creations can't create themselves. They require something more fundamental to bring them into existence. The UOL is not what it produces.

Creation created itself.

[IamYou]

@Carl-Richard To create something one must exist. A nonexistent creation can't bring itself into existence because it doesn't exist. 

[Carl-Richard]

2 minutes ago, IamYou said:

@Carl-Richard To create something one must exist. A nonexistent creation can't bring itself into existence because it doesn't exist. 

What created existence itself?

[IamYou]

@Carl-Richard It it uncreated. The creator did not give birth to itself. How could a nonexistent creator create itself?

Edited March 1, 2022 by IamYou