Doesn’t solipsism make charity pointless?

[Ineedanswers]

Hello.my question is

doesn’t the fact that I’m the only thing that has the ability to suffer,make giving to charity or even to beggars/homeless people pointless ? Am I not literally wasting my money?how is not helping poor people selfish/immoral when there is no one who suffers?

Before listening to leo I had a view of the world that was similar to Rupert Spira.

Even though me and and all other sentient beings are characters in gods(my) dream I thought these other characters too had their own independent experiences(the ability to feel pain/happiness etc).but leo recently said that I’m dreaming up all the experiences that others have.he says this exactly 2HOUrs 4 mins and 30 seconds into his solipsism video.  Leo even said that I dreamed up every single orgasm that he has ever experienced.leo said that the reason I dream up others acting in pain (eg-a dog whimpering when you accidentally step on its tail) is because I(god) wanted to make this dream more immersive and realistic.

if this is the case whats the poiny In giving to charity? Why not just save up  my money and spend it on amy materialistic desires? I’m not even being selfish right ?if no one is going to experience any relief in pain (because others pain is just something I dreamt up to make this dream more immersive)by my donating, isn’t  it literally stupid of me to not spend that money on myself(on something that will make me happy).im just fooling myself into thinking there are others who are being helped by my help/ effort/ donations when actually nobody is.

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Ineedanswers

[Gili Trawangan]

6 minutes ago, Ineedanswers said:

but leo recently said

Enough said.

You have no idea what you're talking about, and you should simply be honest about that.

There's no shame in not knowing, no matter what you hear around here.

[Ineedanswers]

@Gili Trawangan okay,but is charity/helping others meaningless or not?  Am i actually reducing suffering when i help someone? Or am i just imagining that im reducing suffering to make this dream more immersive?

For example- in my night dreams i might dream up im a superhero who prevents someone from being hurt by a villian.but when i wake up i realize i was never a hero and  there was never anybody who was at the risk of being hurt.

Isnt that exactly whats happening now? If not do you mind telling me whats actually going on?

Btw-i have awakened to the fact that we are all one.(similar to rupert spira i think). We are all dream characters in gods(our) mind.

What i havent awakened to is the fact that others do not have any thoughts experiences or feelings and that im imagining others have thoughts experiences feelings to make this dream more immersive and deceptive.this is something i heard from leo in his recent solipsism video. Have i misinterpreted what he was tryinh to communicate? If so can you tell me how?

Btw if you have watched leos solipsism video he says others do not suffer exactly at 2hrs 4mins and 30 secs in

Edited March 1, 2022 by Ineedanswers

[Gili Trawangan]

12 minutes ago, Ineedanswers said:

i have awakened to the fact that we are all one.

There you have it. Others are you, you are others. Therefore, treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. It's consistent with the teachings of all great spiritual teachers AND MORE IMPORTANTLY it's consistent with your own experience.

13 minutes ago, Ineedanswers said:

this is something i heard from leo in his recent solipsism video.

Why you would trust any of this over your own direct experience is beyond me. Take back your authority and trust your own intuition. Love = Truth. Not "denying others = truth", that's just immature, selfish, egoic. Again, Truth is LOVE.

[Ineedanswers]

Just now, Gili Trawangan said:

Why you would trust any of this over your own direct experience is beyond me. Take back your authority and trust your own intuition. Love = Truth. Not "denying others = truth", that's just immature, selfish, egoic. Again, Truth is LOVE.

As leo said exactly 2hrs 4mins and 30 secs into his recent solipsism video, i have never experienced anybody elses pain.only my own. If i am only going to trust my direct experience,how can i believe that others have thoughts ,emotions ,feel pain etc when i have never directly experieneced there thoughts emotions pain? This isnt something i had thought of before watching leos video.its only after watching his video that i realized that others experiences/feelings were just an assumption i had.(just like i assume the dream characters in my nightly dreams have their own experience until i wake up).

 

1 minute ago, Gili Trawangan said:

Love = Truth. Not "denying others = truth", that's just immature, selfish, egoic. Again, Truth is LOVE

If others(beggars/homeless) do not have their own experience how am i being selfish? I have no intention on harming anyone or anything like that.

its just that since i dont know if others such as homeless people actually have any experiences,emotions,feelings of their own i feel like im wasting my money by donating.id rather spend that money on wasteful luxuries if the homelass man doesnt have an increase in pleasure.

[Ineedanswers]

9 minutes ago, Gili Trawangan said:

There you have it. Others are you, you are others. Therefore, treat others as you would like to be treated yourself

How do i know that  the others arent imaginary like the characters in my dream(with no independent thoughts,emotions feeling of their own though?i dont even know if you exist.according to leo you are just another character who i have dreamed up

Im not planning on disrepseting mistreating others due to this recent knowledge.

Its just that i now have no motivation to give to charities to people whom i barely know like i did in the past.in the past i was 100 percent sure  that the people i was giving to were going to experience an increase in pleasure due to my donation.but now im not sure.leos solipsism video made alot of sense.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Ineedanswers said:

Am I not literally wasting my money?

You are literally wasting your money no matter what you spend it on.

So what now, genius?

A point can only exist within a dream.

[Ineedanswers]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are literally wasting your money no matter what you spend it on.

So what now, genius?

A point can only exist within a dream

This is true leo.but why not waste it on something that will give me direct happiness (an expensive meal,clothes,latest technology etc).in the past i gave because i would feel guilty.i would think its not right to waste 2000 dollars on a gaming pc when the homeless man is outside with nothing to eat.therefore i will make a small sacrifice to increase his pleasure.i also felt pleasure by knowing i had made his day better but now it just seems like ive been foolish.who have i been helping? The people i helped were all dreamt up,without thought emotions feelings of there own.there was nobodies day that i could have made.i could have used that money on a expensive meal and no harm would have been done to anyone.isnt this true?

But now ,since as you said  im just imagining the homeless mans pain to make this dream more immersive so i can actually buy into it,why should i feel any guilt?even if i give him the money he isnt going to become happy right?im simply going to imagine that hes happy.im really not trying to bastardize your teachings and use it for devilry leo.if i have misunderstood something please tell me. Whom exactly am i helping by forgoing splurging on my materialistic desires and donating to charity? Does the person i donated to really experience an increase in pleasure?

To use the night dream analogy-imagine that i fell asleep at night and dreamed up i was batman who protected people from being killed by the joker.after a while it dawns on me that im dreaming and that there is no real joker and there is noone who can really be hurt by him.how is it selfish for batman to build and indoor theatre and play videogames all day instead of helping his dreamt up imaginary characters who dont feel pain or pleasure?

Is there any reason why he should feel guilty for helping? I personally see none.

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Ineedanswers

[Cathal]

only trust your direct experience, you are making way to much conclusions on what other people have experienced man. why don't you go out into the world where there are underprivileged kids and people begging for food and ask yourself that question then? trust your direct experience only, what you feel, what is real, what is right, what is true within you

use concepts and guidance but don't make conclusions from them 

wake the fuck up to reality

[Ineedanswers]

2 minutes ago, catcat69123 said:

why don't you go out into the world where there are underprivileged kids and people begging for food and ask yourself that question then? trust your direct experience only, what you feel, what is real, what is right, what is true within you

As leo said 2hrs 4mins and 30secs into his solipsism video.i have no direct experience of the suffering underpriviledged kids and people begging for food.how do i know that they are not just people i have dreamt up to make this dream more immersive?

For example once when i went to sleep at night i had a nightmare that i was being chased by the guy from the texaschainsaw massacre.he ended up cutting of my leg.i  eventually managed to get ahold of his chainsaw and kill him.as i was killing him his pain seemed very real(he was screaming shouting etc).its only when i woke up i realized that i had dreamt the whole thing up and that my leg had never been harmed and i had never hurt leatherface either(because he was a dreamt up charater without thoughts feelings or emotions).how do i directly verify that thats not whats happening now?

Edited March 1, 2022 by Ineedanswers

[GreenWoods]

15 minutes ago, Ineedanswers said:

but why not waste it on something that will give me direct happines

Because the "you" that is believed to benefit from that is just as much an illusion as others.

From the ultimate perspective, buying something nice won't lead to more pleasure for you.

Because the self, future and causation are an illusion.

 

From the relative perspective, buying something nice will lead to pleasure for you. But from the relative perspective, you can also say, that God will dream every dream, and therefore from that perspective, others are real too and can experience real pain and suffering.

[Ineedanswers]

@GreenWoods i agree.to use the night dream analogy.imagine i dream up at night that i am batman/brucewayne and i am saving people from the joker. Later on i realize that im dreaming this up and that im not actually batman .batman,the joker and the victims only exist whithin my dream. Even so is there any reason for brucewayne(me) to not use all his money/time to go on a nice vacation rather than helping these dreamt up victims without thoghts emotions and feelings? Is there anything unethical about it? I dont see so.if someone cannot experience pain whats the problems?

Similarly after the insight that others do not have experiences on there own,it seems like a waste of time/money to donate to people.after all they dont really experience happiness after i donate do they? I only imagine that they do.am i doing anything unethical by wasting that money on a expensive meal/gaming computer and not donating? If i am,how so?

Edited March 1, 2022 by Ineedanswers

[Ineedanswers]

7 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

and therefore from that perspective, others are real too and can experience real pain and suffering.

Is this true? Isnt this like saying the charaters i dream up when i fall asleep can feel pain/suffering? When in actuality i only imagine they experience pain/suffering.when i wakeup i realize i was dreaming the whole thing up and only i experience,feel thoughts and emotions etc. Not the dream characters

[GreenWoods]

2 minutes ago, Ineedanswers said:

@GreenWoods i agree.to use the night dream analogy.imagine i dream up at night that i am batman/brucewayne and i am saving people from the joker. Later on i realize that im dreaming this up and that im not actually batman .batman,the joker and the victims only exist whithin my dream. Even so is there any reason for brucewayne(me) to not use all his money/time to go on a nice vacation rather than helping these dreamt up victims without thoghts emotions and feelings? Is there anything unethical about it? I dont see so.if someone cannot experience pain whats the problems?

As I wrote, going for your pleasure is ultimately just as illusionary as going for others' pleasure.

When you stripped of all illusions it makes cero sense to do something which then leads to pleasure, because self, future, distinctions, and cause & effect are an illusion.

So when you truly got rid of all illusions, and someone points a gun at you, you can't comprehend that there is danger and to run away,  because self, future and causation are an illusion.

If someone offers you a cake, you can't comprehend why to eat it.

If someone asks you to jump out of a window, you can't comprehend why not.

 

Therefore living from the ultimate perspective is not practical. Play the game and adopt the relative perspective. And from that perspective you could say God dreams every dream at once. 

[GreenWoods]

2 minutes ago, Ineedanswers said:

Is this true? Isnt this like saying the charaters i dream up when i fall asleep can feel pain/suffering? When in actuality i only imagine they experience pain/suffering.when i wakeup i realize i was dreaming the whole thing up and only i experience,feel thoughts and emotions etc. Not the dream characters

From the relative perspective, God dreams every possible dream of Infinity. And that of course includes all the dreams of dream characters.

[Joel3102]

Why are you just trusting everything Leo says? Doesn't sound like you're thinking for yourself

[Ineedanswers]

@GreenWoods is it even more ethical to donate to charity from the relative perspective though? The key word here is "more ethical". By splurging on materialistic goods am i really depriving anyone else of pleasure? Does it really matter if i give to charity or not? Why cant i still stay in my dream(relative perspective)while also remembering the truths of the ultimate perspective?

Isnt to say "its good to give to charity" like telling bruce wayne (see my above night dream analogy please) that not fighting the joker is unethical? Why not forget about the imaginary joker and wayne manor and chill at wayne manor? Hes not doing anything wrong right? He has no reason to feel guilt for not helping right?

[Ineedanswers]

@Joel3102 im not.as leo said i have no direct experience of others feeling (happines sadness etc) so why should i believe in it?maybe this is like the dream i have when i go to sleep.ie-where i dream up other characters who have feelings,thoughts to interact with .

 I am trying to come up with a convincing argument against this but i cant.that is why i came to this forum.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Ineedanswers

[Nivsch]

@Ineedanswers What do YOU want to be true?

Do you have some fear of the solipsism?

Edited March 1, 2022 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

6 minutes ago, Ineedanswers said:

@Joel3102 im not.as leo said i have no direct experience of others feeling (happines sadness etc) so why should i believe in it? I am trying to come up with a convincing argument against this but i cant.that is why i came to this forum.

The only thing that matters is what you think.

You can debate, you can try to learn from people but only you will do the final fine tuning and decide for yourself what is the truth. Even psychedelics cant reveal it to you, but only to help.

The fact is that everyone will interprate a little different what meditation/yoga/psychedelics/other shows to them.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Nivsch