By treating Russia as a pariah, we painted ourselves into a corner

[Ryan_047]

8 minutes ago, tsuki said:

YouTube keeps sending me gems:

https://youtube.com/shorts/nmjCu5HYGk0?feature=share

Surely NATO would've accepted a fascist oligarchy into their ranks. 

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, somegirl said:

Are you for real?

You agree with civilians being killed? Ordinary people who didn't want any war? 

I never agree with civilians getting killed.

Do you know how many German civilians were killed in WW2?

It's horrible but they had to be stopped imo.

It probably could have been done with far less collateral damage, that would have been much better.

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by PurpleTree

[tsuki]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_047 said:

Surely NATO would've accepted a fascist oligarchy into their ranks. 

So, you think that the right of admission to NATO is moral purity?

[somegirl]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

I never agree with civilians getting killed.

Then why did you say that you agreed with that NATO intervention? 

Do you know that in 1999 NATO bombed hospitals, killed children and apartment buildings in which ORDINARY people live?

And of course you have an opinion based on story told by your friends. If I were to tell you my part of the story, you would hold different beliefs than ones you do now. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by somegirl

[Ryan_047]

@tsuki Don't put words into my mouth and stop thinking so black and white. 

Point out to me a fascist oligarchy in NATO. 

The only NATO members that took steps towards a more dictatorial rule are Hungary (due to Russian influence by the way) and Turkey (which entered NATO sometimes in the 1950s, and it wasn't a dictatorship back then). Not one of those countries look like Putin's regime, nor do their people live as badly as in Russia. 

You don't enter a military alliance just because you want to, there are values and geopolitical standards which you need to adhere to. Remember when the Soviet Union asked to join Axis?

[tsuki]

@Ryan_047 Sure, values as in: can we profit off of the same countries?

[Leo Gura]

Tone down the rhetoric in this thread or it will be locked down.

Stop the personal sniping.

[Ryan_047]

@tsuki You haven't responded to anything I've said.

Observe how you're projecting a pro NATO fanatic image on me. 

You can play smart ass all you want and point out all the abuses NATO has done (which there were plenty, I dare you to find any comment in which I've denied abuses committed by this military alliance), but that doesn't justify the fact that a random country can just join a military alliance, without being compatible to it, just because it asked without previously stating the intention nor taking any procedures to do so. It's just a political declaration, there were never pragmatic actions took by Russia to join NATO. It always took political distance from the alliance. 

[tsuki]

@Ryan_047 I'm not being serious with these comments. I'm not going to argue over a YouTube short with a snippet of Putin probably taken out of context.

 

[Fleetinglife]

58 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Please use punctuation in your posts. Your latest one was interesting but it defeated me halfway through.

I just did, as much as I could detect and find where the grammatical errors were made and were it was needed for better and easier reading clarity and comprehension. 

Thanks for pointing that out, I was of course aiming to revisit since I wrote out such a long, and comprehensive post in the hurry as thoughts came rushing to me about the subject not paying enough heed to a lot of unconscious grammatical errors I made in a hurry along the way. 

Thanks again for that ??

[Ryan_047]

10 minutes ago, tsuki said:

I'm not being serious with these comments.

Then don't comment. War is a severe subject that requires pragmatism, history and political analysis, not memes and "unserious" comments. Let newer generations in 20 years joke about this war. If not, nobody stops you from creating a separate meme unserious thread. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Ryan_047

[tsuki]

@Ryan_047 If you haven't noticed, I created this thread and I declare its independence from your seriousness. This is now a wholly unserious thread. Let the memes commence!

[lostingenosmaze]

@Fleetinglife I think your posts could use more periods, imo. Making paragraphs by the single sentence makes it hard to track that stream-of-consciousness writing.

[tsuki]

I'm looking for people to ally with so that I can defend the sovereignity of this thread.

We can sometimes raid other threads when they are too much fun, but we will first demonize them to convince ourselves (or the public) that our cause is right.

This will be the funniest thread in this forum, even if we have to shit all over it.

Who's with me?

Edited March 1, 2022 by tsuki

[BlueOak]

What I really don't understand. Is why Russia won't adjust to the reality they find themselves in, wouldn't it be easier?

They are insisting on disarmament for example, while ever more arms enter the country. Its like Putin wants to make things harder for himself to have success in his own operation. I don't get it, I honestly don't. I get wanting to be ruthless from his point of view, and remove the government or his opponents. I get wanting to make them neutral for his own national defense. I even understand the propaganda machine being unable to now admit they are in a war, which doesn't help them, and again the resistance to be in reality hurts their effectiveness to respond to it. By the way all of this means I still think he's not the man he used to be, and that the humanitarian disaster happening is horrific because of this need to not be vulnerable, or acknowledge his countries actual position in the world going forward.

But honestly why are they so bad at adapting to the reality they are in?

Edited March 1, 2022 by BlueOak

[tsuki]

@BlueOak What you just described is the definition of survival and suffering: unwillingness to adapt to circumstances that are changing.

This is not about masculinity, which is the pursuit of truth. That is plain old ignorance, a false conviction that the world should be one way over the other.

[Fleetinglife]

1 hour ago, lostingenosmaze said:

 I was about to say, I count seven whole run-on sentences in that post

 

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

Lmao .. I read his posts and fall asleep midway. 

Hope it's more readable and clear know, I've screened whole paragraphs and sentences in whole posts that I made in an attempt to clear away all the grammar and punctuation errors, need to rework on my English expressiveness quick skills writing it seems, but I would also advise to you guys to up your reading comprehension and immersion in the text skills and not doze off and lose your attention and concentration skill so easily when you can't connect instantly the strings of meanings behind immediate coming sentences easily because of a writing expression and grammar error that I made in them, that I afterward need to screen away to correct, and just give up or let go off understanding the whole context and meaning of what was written by giving up on reading the whole post. That's some add and concentration, patience lacking skills there, if I have to be open and put it bluntly. 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[BlueOak]

Just now, tsuki said:

@BlueOak What you just described is the definition of survival and suffering: unwillingness to adapt to circumstances that are changing.

This is not about masculinity, which is the pursuit of truth. That is plain old ignorance, a false conviction that the world should be one way over the other.

Thank you this is what I need to see inside myself and its another reminder. Much appreciated to see it summed up in a focused way. 
@tsuki

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, somegirl said:

Then why did you say that you agreed with that NATO intervention? 

Do you know that in 1999 NATO bombed hospitals, killed children and apartment buildings in which ORDINARY people live?

And of course you have an opinion based on story told by your friends. If I were to tell you my part of the story, you would hold different beliefs than ones you do now. 

i mean i feel you. it must be a bad feeling if you got attacked by the "west", countries that you might like otherwise for various reasons.

and they don't even really seem to care about it. 

i hope in the future serbia will be closer with europe (hope the same about russia) and all will be better

[Fleetinglife]

4 hours ago, lostingenosmaze said:

I think your posts could use more periods, imo. Making paragraphs by the single sentence makes it hard to track that stream-of-consciousness writing.

I get what you are saying and thanks for the feedback and advice, I will work on writing more clearly and correctly that way in the future, but what I wanted to write and express here hurriedly regarding the view on NATO from some other people and countries perspectives here turned out the way that it did the way my thoughts about the topic and subject came rushing in and I expressed them in the way they turned out to be. I will take your advice to heed and try to phrase them in the way with more periods in between in order for them to be more clear in the future when writing about such types of more complex, layered topics and interconnected issues. 

Thanks again for the constructive feedback advice for working on better and more clearly phrasing them in the future! Appreciate it! ??

Edited March 1, 2022 by Fleetinglife