Artists aren't as impactful as engineers, People don't care about Art

[vizual]

In defense of art; art has the ability to awake certain emotions in me that are close to impossible to awaken in me in real life situations, if that makes sense. It can make me feel things that I haven't felt before, and of course, make me see things that I haven't seen before, sensory wise. Is that valuable? Maybe, it can inspire me, which in turn, can make my life feel more meaningful.

It's like; when the movie Top Gun game out everyone wanted to be in the Airforce, and they had a huge spike in people that wanted to join the Airforce. Of course you could say that that's just a propagandic function of art, just like how the dictators use art for their own selfish purposes. But this inspiration can also be used in responsible ways.

A great piece of art can change the way I look at world. A new invention which is going to make my internet twice as fast is amazing, but it won't make me look at the world differently, nor will it impact me emotionally.

[Extreme Z7]

On a more serious note, though.

Art has the power to change you, especially the forms of media outside of the 'mainstream' stereotypical representation of what art is which is usually limited to a dumb painting in a gallery.

There is huge importance to movies, music, writing, and visual art to the shaping of one's culture and especially one's very opinions on what Life is about. Its power is so great that it even has potential for abuse like in the world of advertising and propaganda.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Extreme Z7

[Mulky]

Life comes together as a soup, all the ingredients are important and matter.  Some of them you don't directly or consciously know the importance of.  The laugh of a kid or the song of a bird has a ripple effect throughout the emotional economy of people.  Some people are consciously aware that the combination of plants has made the air come together in a way that makes them feel better, but some people are not.  Subtlety is the master of the ... less subtle.  You have always lived in a world filled with art music and all of that.  It is like being a fish in water, to some extent.  You take for granted the effect that art has directly and indirectly on your experience of life. 

There is a difference between being yourself right now thinking about a world with none of that stuff, and what that actual experience would be like.  It is like when there's a movie about living on another planet and assuming humans are going to feel basically the same.  When our body is perfectly evolved for this planet and even a subtle change, different type of air, or sterile air with no plant variety in it, different gravity, etc, would probably cause you to constantly feel physically terrible.  Looking at everything through a sterile conceptual lens, we underestimate the effect an infinite number of subtle things have on our experience all day long.  A lot of these things like art and music and, well an infinite number of other things are in that category.  You assume the feeling of sun on your skin is nothing and you would feel ok without it.  Intuition tells you your body is made for that and it would change how you feel, but you don't believe it until someone shows you some data.  There are thousands of things in your life that are like that, either not in sync with your or something you really need but are neglecting.  Science won't be able to really prove that to you for a while, if ever.

Art is one of those things that's in the salad of life, if it's here it must be supposed to be here, and it does have a place in life.  Can art people be pretentious, yes.  Is the artist ego sort of silly, ya, but I mean art itself isn't.  

Edited March 2, 2022 by Mulky
spelling

[puporing]

Art is essential, but is difficult to exist without all the other survival stuff being taken care of, just like spirituality - which often merges with art. 

As an aside: one can infuse spirituality and art into anything, including engineering. 

Also your profile pic is Steve Jobs, his success came because of an appreciation for artistry.

Edited March 2, 2022 by puporing

[integral]

One inner engineers with experiences. 

 

[Spence94]

I know some artists who are amazing human beings. My best friend is an artist. He is a freak, and I love him. His mind and spirit is on such a wavelength that his very being impacts all he comes accross in person and through the expression in his art. He's making an impact by sending ripples through the cosmos in multiple forms and dimensions. His life is his art. Art is his life.

He impacts through a psychedelic vortex.

He impacts through love and compassion.

Through his Dharma and Karma, he is making an impact.

At least he feels it. Maybe that is all that matters.

[Seth]

Expand what you consider art.

[Reciprocality]

@Seth When you expand in your considerations of art you are either diving deeper into the essence of art itself or you are merely standing in reactive opposition to the subjective nature of art by opposing your own subjective considerations above others while unironically thinking you do the opposite.

Such that when everything should be considered art the actual artistic expression have been completely inflated.

 

This particular postmodern reaction as described above unfolds trough an 'abundance theory' that everything ads on everything else, and that we are thus what we want to be and not what we are made of.

[MarkKol]

I've read a couple of articles and watched some videos about Art and Engineering while also reading Biographies about people who we're really good in those fields. I think I need both, the thing I've been struggling with is: I love the impact technical and scientific people make on the world, but I hate being technical and dealing with stupid complexity all the time. I knew that already, but yesterday I started feeling differently about Art, I can see the point of it but also its flaws. Art doesn't make a tangible enough impact while engineering does (for me), Engineering without Art... the best way I can put it now, feels like a dry sponge without any juice or water in it. now the challenge is, how do I merge those two with my life purpose.

Engineering alone is too technical, dry and I'm afraid of becoming the person who thinks about solving math problems all day

Art is not tangible enough to put it plainly, the difference it makes is too conceptual and theoretical for me to lay down in my bed at the end of the day and say... Yup today I made a big difference. I always questioned the actual value of my advice, even when the person thanks me for it. I always thought, what if that advice was just a placebo effect and the person I gave it to is just bullshitting himself into thinking it made them grow? I watched a video about a guy who started making Bionic legs for disabled children and thought to myself: I would never question the impact something like that makes, that's the type of difference I want to make in the world.

I'm only stage orange entering into green, so I'm closer to a monkey than a sage, and that's probably why. A monkey is more likely to feel happy that he gave a banana to another monkey then a monkey feeling happy that he gave Wisdom to another monkey.

Art and Engineering; Both fill each others gaps and therefore I decided I'm going to do my best to be involved in both.

Thanks everyone

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by MarkKol

[John Paul]

Don't underestimate the value of things that maintain your morale. The toaster does nothing to maintain your morale, the painting does. Think about if Leo did all his videos dressed in a wrinkled ACDC shirt and said "uhhhhh..hey guys... uhhmmm...so today we are talking about aztec non-duality...and uh.. so i was thinking about this video." nah bro.. actualized.org's information is extremely valuable to society in terms of education...but Leo's true impact is his ART-his ability to write clear and beautiful speeches and deliver them to you in such a way that it INSPIRES you to be curious about life, to ask questions, and to have a more beautiful vision for your personal life... it's not the practical information itself, not really.. at the end of the day it's his ability to inspire a part of you. and that's the same thing many people find in Kanye West-when they listen it awakens a certain feeling in them that helps them make it just one more day. if you just lived in a cement block, with just a bed and no mirror, and everyone wore the same clothes, and we just all ate the same meal.....how can you feel anything, you'd be crazy. you need your favorite restaurant and dish, and the shirt you feel good in, and your songs on the way to the office, and you need Leo when you get home to inspire you, and you need to make art yourself to satisfy that part of you too

[Unio]

@MarkKol

Imagine if you as an artist could give the people who interact with your work just 1 unit of inspiration, new perspectives, pleasure, elevated consciousness, beauty, love for reality, curing depression, etc. Wouldn't that be pretty powerful? Especially if your work reaches many people. 

I struggle with this question myself a lot because we can't really go out there with a ruler and measure our impact as artists the way an engineer can get a clear number of however many people have been helped by their work. Nevertheless, we know that art has a massive impact on people, and in some cases that impact can be life-changing especially if they happen to get 100 or 1000 units of "art-benefit". 

 

Maybe someone will hear your music and dislike it so much that it inspires them to work really hard on their own LP. hahaha we can't really know

Idk, the impact of art is kind of whimsical, intangible, unquantifiable yet really fucking real at the same time. 

[Seth]

@Reciprocality Could you rephrase that in english?

[Thought Art]

People REALLY care about art. Just not crappy art or art they never heard before. You gotta make good shit, and market it. (: 

You don't need a massive following to earn good money in the modern age. Plenty of online courses teach you to make a decent living from a mall audience (ie 1000-15000 fans)

[King Merk]

@MarkKol dude, everything is “art” 

Engineers ARE artists.

Scientists ARE artists.

Your physical manifestation & sense of self is a literal artistic creation via God.

Spend more time contemplating what exactly “art” is.  

[Adndnadan]

@King Merk art is everything conceptual. 

But I don't know how to make and market art in a way I'd actually be passionate about

[Adodd]

On 2/28/2022 at 9:36 AM, MarkKol said:

Examples: the people we consider valuable, noble and who shaped our society 

Mathematicians, Scientists, Leaders, Engineers (overall technical people)

1. Albert Einstein
2. Elon Musk (Tesla,Spacex,Paypal,TBC)
3. Alan Turing (So impactful they put him on the 50 pound note)
4. Steve Jobs (Apple)
5. Bill Gates (Microsoft)
6. Henry Ford (The Ford Company)

Maybe it's because Leaders are more impactful, and most Artists have no interest in Leadership it seems, but technical people do.

@MarkKol Einstein's greatest realizations came to him while playing his violin. You missunderstand art. "Imagination is more important than knowledge, knowledge is limited while imagination encircles the world."-Albert Einstein

Why Albert Einstein would not have created his theory if his mom didn't make him play violin:https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/03/15/why-albert-einstein-may-not-have-created-the-theory-of-relativity-if-his-mom-hadnt-made-him-play-the-violin.html

Edited March 4, 2022 by Adodd

[KingCrimson]

Wow. I don't even know where to begin to respond to this. Some of the things that have been said here are so ridiculous, confused and absurd that it makes me think people are just taking the piss.

"People don't care about art"? Dude, you can literally go to ANY song on YouTube and find people in the comments who express their gratitude to the artist. "You have changed my life!" is one of the most common expressions you'll find. Artists and the works they create are absolutely essential in every conceivable way.

This sort of attitude reminds me of the Stage Orange kind of people who consider anything other than STEM fields as worthless and laughing at anybody who is pursuing the humanities and arts, whom they perceive as lazy and involved in something that is not practical to the evolution of mankind. From my perspective these people are completely stuck in their head and totally deprived of one of the most beautiful aspects of their humanity.

I don't even see the point of trying to divide up "artistic people" vs. "technical people" and trying to argue that one or the other is superior to begin with. That whole endeavour is absurd and pointless from the get-go. You're also seriously underestimating the creativity, genius and discipline that goes into creating great art when you say that someone like Picasso "couldn't hold a candle" to Einstein or some other scientist. 

If you have to ask the question "What's the point of music?" - Seriously, have you ever listened to a piece of music in your life? If the "point" doesn't jump out at you straight away I don't even know what I could say that would make you see (or rather hear) the point.

[MarkKol]

@KingCrimson 

7 hours ago, KingCrimson said:

literally go to ANY song on YouTube and find people in the comments who express their gratitude to the artist. "You have changed my life!"

How does a song change your life??

[KingCrimson]

3 hours ago, MarkKol said:

@KingCrimson 

How does a song change your life??

There's an infinite amount of ways in which music changes people's lives. But I'll elaborate a bit on what spontaneously comes to my mind. 

Fundamentally, it's about how music makes us feel. Listening to music can elicit all sorts of emotions and reactions which people find extremely pleasurable. I feel almost stupid writing this because to my mind, this just has to be obvious to anyone who has ears and has ever listened to any piece of music at all. Human beings are wired to respond to music in certain ways. Personally, I have been to concerts that had such a profound impact on me that I can only describe it as a transcendental experience. Music has the power to shake you to your core, to express things which one cannot put into words. It can give you goosebumps make you cry, make you ecstatic, even temporarily transcend your limited sense of self.

It can also be amazingly therapeutic. For me, growing up as a teenager and young adult, there have been times were my mental health was pretty much carried by the music I was listening to. I felt like the artists creating this music "got" me, as opposed to parents, teachers etc. You know what it's like being a teenager. This therapeutic effect is even greater for those making music themselves. Countless times I have come home, feeling a certain "negative" emotion like sadness, and putting that emotion into a song is extremely effective. A lot of musicians will tell you that they feel like they "have to" make music because they would not be able to cope with life in any other way. I feel this is a very constructive way of dealing with your "stuff", channeling it into something creative. 

This ties into the question of identity. Music plays a big part in the formation of an identity for many people, especially in their teens. Many people identify as a jazzer, or a metalhead, or a goth, or a hip hopper, whatever. This has a huge impact on their lives. It dictates what people they hang out with, what clothes they wear etc. Entire subcultures with millions of participants are formed around certain styles of music. 

There is a political dimension too. Quite a few artists use their music to convey political messages, which can absolutely have a tangible impact. Passion for music can bring people from many different countries and of all walks of life together in harmony. Of course, it can and has been used as a potent propaganda tool and even a torture device as well. 

At the end of the day, though, there is no point to music other than the music itself. It does not need to serve any other function. It is its own purpose. To me, and I would guess most people, this has always been apparent.

It's a bit like asking "What's the point of having an orgasm?" Well, if you've ever had one, the answer is pretty obvious, isn't it? Not everything in life has to be utilitarian.

There is an infinite amount of examples one could use to illustrate why people love music so much. Look at this performance by Paul McCartney for example: https://youtu.be/uXdGOYo_fsE
People dancing, screaming, vibing, grown men crying...Obviously, the lives of all of these people are enhanced tremendously by the music, and they are extremely grateful to the artists who share their skill and passion with them. Being an artist is in no way inferior to being a scientist or mathematician. Moreover, viewed from a certain perspective, every scientist or mathematician is an artist themselves. But that discussion is another huge can of worms.

I hope that my answer made at least some sense to you. I am curious to hear your response since your perception of reality seems so fundamentally different from mine when it comes to how you relate to art that it boggles my mind. I feel like I can learn something from that.

Edited March 6, 2022 by KingCrimson

[peanutspathtotruth]

Pepole care a lot about art. Just not all people. There are people who love getting deep into complex and elaborate thought systems and ideas to be inspired, who love technology and stuff you can touch and own and and you are probably one of them. But many people just aren't working that way. They don't care about word salads, technology or materialist goods, at least not in the same way. Of course we all have both sides in us, but some of us are just more artistically oriented. We see a movie or listen to a song and the whole world changes, our envisioning of our life and the beautiful future we can create suddenly bursts with magic and enthusiasm and love. 

Have you ever cried because art was so beautiful it brought you into the core of beauty, pain, love, the human dilemma, the spiritual path, God, existence, community, or just a struggle you have? This is what art can do. It can transform, heal and evolve us. But being open and receptive to that has to be learned in a way. The more I learn about the visual arts, the more I deeply appreciate movies. It's so far beyond entertainment - the whole package can be so abnormally beautiful that the whole atmosphere is changing my whole internal landscape and inspires me for days on end. This is beauty.