Matt23

Nahm

7 posts in this topic

I didn't write on the topic before it was closed and want to share my thoughts, feelings, and perspectives.

I don't know whether any are correct or partially correct at all, but this is where I see and feel at the moment.

 

I deeply feel hurt when I heard the news. 

Nahm... I love him so much.  I love you.  You were great to me during our sessions and all the wisdom you shared.  I loved all your quirks and weird ways of speaking, even if I did feel frustrated at them at times.  Over time I began to try to learn to not just write it off as hocus-pocus and cryptic talk but tied to actually use my noggin to try and understand it.  At the very least, what I felt and heard from you was coming from a loving place and you were a great guide and friend.  I love you and wish you were still around.  I feel you offered a great feeling-oriented balance to Leo's brainy and more harsh stance and attitude on things often.  I feel you were well serving this community with this alternate perspective, even if it was difficult to understand and even frustrating at times, bordering on being dismissive haha.  It's all good though.  I love you dearly. 

As for Leo, I feel mixed feelings and am seriously beginning to question him, enlightenment, and even if it's just his take on things.  First, I feel deeply frustrated and bitter towards you, like cuz I love Nahm so and you hurt me (this is my "child-self" talking.. venting, I don't believe Leo really "hurt" me in that much of an accusatory sense intellectually, but emotionally this is what I feel).  I'm just like, "WTF man... why do you have to go around being so fucking bossy n shit?!"  That's that anyways.  

I guess I just believe Leo is taking this stuff too seriously and not allowing enough cross-pollination between his and other views and perspectives, which is leading him and this community to treat into more cult-ish like waters, which I'm concerned about.  

I think I'm mostly concerned for Leo since, I'm starting to see him as being more lost in his own self, self-significance perhaps (dunno), and mind.  Like, I just think he's being too serious, too alone and isolated in his perspective, and too much about himself perhaps.  Perhaps.  

I'm worried Leo is or has been getting a bit more deluded.  Dunno.  But like, it's easy for me to see how this whole Actualized.org mission, awakening, etc., is connected to some insecurity, perhaps from childhood, which he's trying to counter from.  Maybe I'm projecting, sure, valid.  But maybe not.  I'm sensing it may be the right view.  But again, I dunno.  

Please, I don't wish to have big arguments about this.  The state I'm feeling as I write this comes mostly from concern and wish or hope he's not this way as there is a felt sense of care involved as well.  

I had this shift in perspective before viewing the Nahm situation when I did an MDMA trip and really realized how seriously I was taking my own self and life.  Love is chill  is the main lesson I was shown or saw then.  Love doesn't take itself too seriously, it isn't big, it is chill, relaxed, humble, even small sometimes.  

I believe it's definitely possible projection is happening (to what degree or how much, I dunno).  On the other hand though, it takes one to know one, and I believe I have a similar personality type (as do many) in terms of being someone who more puts themselves and their own self-significance as a top priority as opposed to being other-focused and group-focused.  This isn't bad in and of itself.  Though I believe certain personalities can develop imbalances where they swing, naturally, without doing enough personal work, towards one extreme or the other; either being too giving and selfless or too self-centered and confident. 

I do feel it's right though to acknowledge that Leo probably does take himself and the work he does, even enlightenment, too seriously and that it's time to stop that since it not only hurts others but also himself.  And I don't want him to be in pain.  

I just hope Leo is fine and that Nahm is fine (I don't doubt he is :P).  

I just believe Leo is moving dangerously towards being a sort of cult-leader of sorts (I use this term hesitantly since it is loaded and a bit provocative... perhaps a better word could be "isolated", in connection with some sort of self-delusion or deception).  Anyways... Ya, I just don't like the move he made and view it as something that further makes him seem like what I described; a sort of increasingly self-isolating cult-leader who shuns others who disagree with him.  Which, valid or not, may be accurate to different degrees and may not be true at all.  I don't know. 

At the very least, Leo, if you don't know if you're deluding yourself or heading down misguided territory, you must know that this makes you seem more of what was described above.  I probably assume you do.

...

Blah...

words.

Anways.

Nahm, I hekin love you buddy.  

I realize others have mixed opinions about you, i dunno, could be true, could be false, I dunno.. Either way, the experiences I had with you were lovely and awesome and I wish we had more time together and that you could still offer advice here (yes, even if some of it can seem a bit... well... you know... "Nahmish" and perhaps not necessarily the best or right choice of verbage...lol). 

Leo, I love you too and wish you were better at making things more or less stringent and more just chill.  Like, ya...  What was said comes from a place of concern for you and being uncertain about what's happening with you over there, rather than much pain, anger, or misery.  I'm just not sure you're "all there" or "all right" etc... 

I wish you were more a bit about people rather than concepts.  But hey, I mean, it's gotta come from you so, it's all your choice I suppose. 

 ...

Love ya's all.

 

 

I'd love it if this didn't turn into a big argument fest.  

I imagine people's reaction will vary.  Doesn't matter I suppose.  But I just dislike too much arguing and hatred and stuff and desire to have this be more constructive and coming from a place of caring concern and gratitude rather than disliking and hating each other.   Getting along you know?  I know Leo has views I disagree on, and my skepticism for him as increased... but still... we can all still get along.  

 

Love ya'll (haha, even if you argue.. I do too :P) 

Enjoy.  

 

 

P.S.:  Please leave it up for at least a day or two.  Let people view this perspective and let them choose whether they believe it's sane, valid, and good or not.  Let them choose.

 

 

Edited by Matt23

"Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down"   --   Marry Poppins

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Sometimes you have to take a hard stance. He said it was a tough decision so I'm sure he thought about it long and stuff. It would've been easier in a sense perhaps for him not to do anything and not lose a bunch of people in the process. You have to see past the surface and of why ultimately it was better than not doing anything. He cares about you awakening and with that will come loads of people misunderstanding him, demonizing, etc. Nahm is still loved too. It doesn't have to be a black and white thing!

Love you too ?9_9.


I am Lord of Heaven, Second Coming of Jesus Christ. ❣ Warning: nobody here has reached the true God.

         ┊ ┊⋆ ┊ . ♪ 星空のディスタンス ♫┆彡 what are you dreaming today?

                           天国が来る | 私は道であり、真実であり、命であり。

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Isnt he technically still in the forum?


 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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@Thought Art He's not banned, I guess he's just not participating right now. 


I am Lord of Heaven, Second Coming of Jesus Christ. ❣ Warning: nobody here has reached the true God.

         ┊ ┊⋆ ┊ . ♪ 星空のディスタンス ♫┆彡 what are you dreaming today?

                           天国が来る | 私は道であり、真実であり、命であり。

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On 27/02/2022 at 11:45 PM, Matt23 said:

I guess I just believe Leo is taking this stuff too seriously and not allowing enough cross-pollination between his and other views and perspectives, which is leading him and this community to treat into more cult-ish like waters, which I'm concerned about.  

I think I'm mostly concerned for Leo since, I'm starting to see him as being more lost in his own self, self-significance perhaps (dunno), and mind.  Like, I just think he's being too serious, too alone and isolated in his perspective, and too much about himself perhaps.  Perhaps.  

I understand why you might think this, but i dont think its a case of Leo just not accepting views. If we look at Nahm as a teacher who, at least previously, holds some authority by being appointed a mod by Leo, it is very important that he meets people where they are at, which i think he rarely did imo. 

This forum has many vulnerable people on it and just having the inflexible 'you are not your thoughts' reply to every question, has the potential to be quite damaging. I had a couple discussions with Nahm myself and i left it very confused, either he just wasnt making sense or it was just way over my head. As i remember it was a discussion about LOA, in which i was skeptical about manifesting and he left several replies but i just couldnt understand it. Now i think its really on the teacher to teach in a way that could be understood and if we say Nahm is just incredibly enlightened, which could be the case, he has not found a way to communicate to people in a way that resonates, not on a wide scale anyway. So i think he should still make his content and those that want to consume it resonates with i think thats cool, but in terms of being on a large platform and being able to influence people as well as charge for his time, i dont think it works unfortunately. 

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I think Leo was being very fair in the situation. I've only recently joined but I read the thread about him getting demoted and the PM screenshot. He was given a more than fair warning and chance to change but didn't seem to be listening to Leo's perspective at all. I don't doubt he's right with his answers but his posts highlighted would do little to help whoever is reading them for the majority of people on here, and he could even have been doing more harm than good. He might be a very wise and awakened person but his Spiral Wizardly game is/was very poor. I hope he's ok, seems like he was a very well loved person on here and that he eventually understood why he was demoted.

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I just believe Leo is moving dangerously towards being a sort of cult-leader of sorts

A lot of people think this. I'd suggest researching what a cult is and how they work so you can answer this for yourself, including Leo's videos on them (I think one is about cult psychology and the other directly addressing Actualized.org being a cult or not).

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