Identity Leads to Feeling or Feeling Leads to Identity?

[BlueOak]

Do people form identity to support their emotional state? or Do people get feelings from their identity?
Are both of these things true for most people?

I would guess both is true depending on their situation, but I've never asked. This is one of those times how you phrase this question might help with definition or further understanding.

Thanks.

[WelcometoReality]

7 hours ago, BlueOak said:

Do people form identity to support their emotional state? or Do people get feelings from their identity?
Are both of these things true for most people?

I would guess both is true depending on their situation, but I've never asked. This is one of those times how you phrase this question might help with definition or further understanding.

Thanks.

Identity is formed through feeling and thought or the surpression of them. 

It can also be very subtle. I'd say any form of rigidity is identification.

[BlueOak]

@WelcometoReality
@Benton

Thank you both for your thoughts  I'll take a look at the video tomorrow also.
 

Edited February 27, 2022 by BlueOak

[Gianna]

This is a brilliant question, @BlueOak. 
I think we gain an identity when emotional experiences first happen in our earliest years because of the illusion of separation— that feelings/emotions happen “to and from” “one another”. Yet, later in our life when we have an established sense of self tied to these emotional/energetic experiences, they re-create themselves to experience themself, express themself. So now you have emotions coming from an identity with an identity that was created from emotions/past emotional experiences. 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@BlueOak You can run both pathways. Feeling leads to identity as well as identity leads to feeling. Early chilhood upbringing, trauma, successes, positive experiences etc. All can form an identity through emotions/energetic experience basically the whole being collectively and individually.

Collective and individual mass identities of I am an american, human being, a chef, an architect, a computer programmer, father, mother, husband, wife, gay, white, black, meditator, healer, artist etc. All of these are mostly formed through emotions and through thought and are perpetuated by it. When the reference experience does not fundamentally change thoughts, feelings, energetic experience all sense gates etc. Then there is no fundamental shift in identity. As well as when these emotions do not change. The fundelmental identity does also not change. For example I can have an experience as a meditator that shifts my entire identity to the point where an identity does not even make sense, all of these categories.

As well as the fundamental shift in emotions experienced also changes. Or to give a more real world personal example. When I was working out and shifted as a mindset my identity from being a guy at the gym, to being an athelete in training or even when meditating while working out a god in training. It definitely helped me to feel more positively and hit more flow states and forget the issue of identity, self-refrence, ego etc. completely.  As well as my emotional state shifted thanks to the flow state hit more joy, more passion, more love, less hate, less pride, less apathy, less shame etc. That would be a shift in identity leads to a different shift in what you feel. It also hads some negative qualities with it I felt more vanity and pride also. 

Also a shift in what I feel leads to a shift of my identity I could start feeling a lot of contentment and pleasure in my life so I identify myself now as a happy human or happy guy, instead of when I just felt more miserable as an unhappy and unsatisfied guy or human. I can be a happy chef and I can be an unhappy chef. The quality of my work will shift etc. So the identity shift and the emotional shift both have a casual relation. I'd say. 

It's a both and question not either or. It's interconnected feeling and identity. 
 

Edited February 28, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[BlueOak]

Thank you both again. I've read this through a few times now.

@Gianna

Thank you. I would suppose the desire to be anything but what was happening right now, would also be a cyclic experience repeating from a previous identity.

@ValiantSalvatore
This is difficult because I used to consciously do this. Manipulate identity to achieve results but the old me never felt in control just in reaction. Maybe I just need to pick the right identity like you say. The emotions attached to old identities are often familiar and so they are harder to let go of.

I need some practice in shifting identities and holding them for sure. Thank you I appreciate it.

Edited February 28, 2022 by BlueOak

[Gianna]

51 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

@Gianna

Thank you. I would suppose the desire to be anything but what was happening right now, would also be a cyclic experience repeating from a previous identity.

And I would suppose that as well  

[Random witch]

The identity exists in our thoughts, our emotions are the manifestations of our thoughts.

Our thoughts affect our emotions and vice versa.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@BlueOak Ultimately it's about deconstructing identity, a healthy ego/identity definitely helps to smoothen the process. 



 

Edited February 28, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[BlueOak]

Appreciate it everyone :D, been insightful.

@Random witch

I know the body/mind are the same. I do feel emotions sometimes first in the chest or stomach before I do anywhere else. These trigger thoughts and then reasoning of the identity they are linked to. 

@ValiantSalvatore

Did that. Faced violence. My Ego came back bigger and more overbearing than ever. I have no idea how to live ego free when confronted with violence or intense anger. Loving all things was the only way I managed to get ego free previously and if someone is shouting in your face or wishing you harm that is almost impossible and also not healthy in any way. Any insight would be gratefully received.

Gratitude to you all again.

[Preety_India]

I think it's an inter connected process. Our thoughts and emotions shape up our identity whereas identity impacts our thoughts and emotions. 

It is one of those things that create a strange loop. 

 

[Loba]

I was going to suggest both, but that seems to be the consensus here.
Sometimes when working on myself, I follow how I feel and it leads to a sense of identity discovery, while other times I know who I am based on certain feelings.  I'm not having the easiest time describing it..

Following the feeling down to an identity discovery is my preferred way..

[ValiantSalvatore]

@BlueOak I can see your point of view that when someone shouts or triggers you enormously, we have this fantasy of oh we should not be angry and reply with some sort of threat of violence of our own. Or shout back, fight back, threaten etc. I am neither ego free nor awoke.I did have some state experiences in meditation retreats and taking some psychedelics. Also dissolving a lot of shadow material on psychedelics. I find these moral questions are really really important and tbh I did not study this extensively, yet read about the models from Kohlberg etc. There are different issues.

My favorite take on this with anger is for example if you are on a life boat, with a nazi, hells angels, an architect, a backer and you/me. The hells angels / nazis have to go they will cling to power, you can run all of the SD stages through it and apply the moral lense that shapes these values of each stage. Hells angels red / terrorist red / nazis red etc. On the persons themselves. 

How green would act, how yellow would act etc. I liked Wilbers answer a lot that the hells angels/nazis or pure red need to go, basically you'd have to get rid of them in order for all of you to survive, instead of for example applying the moral lense of "oh we are all equal" let's let the nazis stay they are not threatening our survival. Let them stay in hopes that we are not killed/raped etc. When we arrive at an island with our life boat and they will cling to power because of lack of morals etc. You see this from the higher perspective and more mature perspective, even though it might seem less moral at lower stages and more "immature" at not fully ripe stages. 

Ego backlashes, aftershocks, dark knights etc. All can be experienced during the path. I had more dark experiences like purgatory when meditating. Not on pyschedelics fortunately. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a344llNU15Y

Insights I found in my own meditations is that a deep compassion is behind anger, when the emotion is fully digested/purged etc. Does not mean anger stops etc. Love and gratitude are also for me deep ways in which I can transcend this intense thoughts about violence/anger as well as my projection of them, which is not easy to sort of love your enemy. I love to give the flipside analogy of my personal experience. I meet a nazi when I was 18 or so who was 17 he was so racistly loving to me I could not help loving the guy, even if he was like blatantly overt racist, after a while he said to me. You know what for a black guy you are pretty decent. I had to laugh so hard, he turned fully red. After that we had a lot of fun. 

Finding ways to express all of these feelings and doing shadow work of some sort is important. I am not a shadow work expert as this as I stopped and changed my shadow work practice to smth. that many might not recommend or even consider. 

I'd prefer not using violence either, yet sometimes it's neccessary in my opinion to exercise force. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore