The source of thoughts is aware

[WokeBloke]

Remember only the source of thoughts can think.

Now look at this:

What is 4 + 4?

 

 

The source of thoughts then answers 8.

So the source of thoughts sees and responds to my question because it it aware of my question.

Thoughts can't see but the source of thoughts can.

 

 

[VeganAwake]

There is no source....the source is an illusion.

❤ 

[WokeBloke]

@VeganAwake Says the source.

[VeganAwake]

22 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

@VeganAwake Says the source.

Well there definitely seems to be a source but it's literally coming from nowhere & going nowhere.

Its not that the bodies typing and responding to messages is an illusion......the illusion is the experience that real separate individuals are communicating from within those bodies.

The bodies are empty.... there's no one actually in there or anywhere for that matter. 

❤ 

[Nadosa]

4 hours ago, WokeBloke said:

Remember only the source of thoughts can think.

Now look at this:

What is 4 + 4?

 

 

The source of thoughts then answers 8.

So the source of thoughts sees and responds to my question because it it aware of my question.

Thoughts can't see but the source of thoughts can.

 

 

Not two. You + source??

[WelcometoReality]

20 hours ago, WokeBloke said:

Remember only the source of thoughts can think.

Now look at this:

What is 4 + 4?

 

 

The source of thoughts then answers 8.

So the source of thoughts sees and responds to my question because it it aware of my question.

Thoughts can't see but the source of thoughts can.

The mind produces a thought "8". 

If the source produces the thought then the source should be able to stop thinking.

I have in previous threads of yours suggested that you should try to stop thinking have you tried that?

[WokeBloke]

@WelcometoReality

Just because someone can't stop thinking doesn't mean they aren't making the thoughts. Someone addicted to smoking can't stop smoking but they are still responsible.

Edited February 27, 2022 by WokeBloke

[VeganAwake]

Yay we've established that thoughts definitely seem to arise from somewhere.....

We are really getting somewhere now ? 

[John Paul]

@VeganAwake

no difference between something and nothing

 

[VeganAwake]

7 hours ago, John Paul said:

@VeganAwake

no difference between something and nothing

 

Yeah,

I also like "real and unreal"

There seems to be an apparent difference between thought and the absence of thought.

A thought for example can seem to create a reaction or experience within the body.

But a thought that's not identified with or entertained just seems to arise and then fall away without causing any reaction similar to absence of thought.

So was there even a real happening?

It was real & unreal!!

❤ 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by VeganAwake

[WelcometoReality]

4 hours ago, WokeBloke said:

@WelcometoReality

Just because someone can't stop thinking doesn't mean they aren't making the thoughts. Someone addicted to smoking can't stop smoking but they are still responsible.

If someone can't stop thinking then how are they making the thoughts? If someone was making the thoughts then wouldn't that imply that someone also could stop making the thoughts?

How are they responsible?

 

[John Paul]

God is not understood. God is beyond understanding. what you're doing right now is thinking. that's all you are doing. God isn't done. God is God. Trying to create the highest model especially in a few sentences is a trap.

[snowyowl]

On 26/02/2022 at 4:55 AM, VeganAwake said:

Well there definitely seems to be a source but it's literally coming from nowhere & going nowhere.

That's true from the pov of consciousness. What do you make of the idea that the source of consciousness is the subconscious? That there's a functioning, calculating but invisible part of the mind, including memory, and the energy of thought / emotion moves between the two. From unconscious to conscious, nothing to something. And the observable, physical brain covers both aspects of mind. It's just a theory, but perhaps helps in therapeutic work, by modelling the movement of emotions and thoughts in a slightly more understandable way for most people. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by snowyowl

[Mason Riggle]

Consider the whirlpool.. Is there really such a thing as a whirlpool? 

If I asked you to show me a whirlpool, without showing me the river, could you? Can you take a whirlpool out of the river and show it to me? 

If whirlpools produced thoughts instead of bubbles, one thought that might bubble up is 'I am doing this.. I am making these thoughts', but the bubbles are something the whole river is doing. 

'You' are something the whole Universe is doing. 

Yes, it's fine to say, ' the whirlpool is the source of the bubbles', but understand that the river is the source of the whirlpool, and the mountains the source of the river.. The mountains are producing the bubbles just as much as the whirlpool. 

All the distinctions.. mountain, river, whirlpool, bubbles.. all are source and none are source.. 

All are 'doing what they do', none are 'cause of what they do'.. 

 

[VeganAwake]

10 hours ago, snowyowl said:

That's true from the pov of consciousness. What do you make of the idea that the source of consciousness is the subconscious? That there's a functioning, calculating but invisible part of the mind, including memory, and the energy of thought / emotion moves between the two. From unconscious to conscious, nothing to something. And the observable, physical brain covers both aspects of mind. It's just a theory, but perhaps helps in therapeutic work, by modelling the movement of emotions and thoughts in a slightly more understandable way for most people. 

I'm not sure what you mean by consciousness.

Here it was recognized consciousness was just the body feeling alert or aware... it's not a big spiritual event or something!

There are definitely some very creative minds... although for the most part the mind seems to mostly just go in patters or circles in a very habitual/repetitive way whether it's consciously or subconsciously.

Yeah I'm sure it can seem to be very therapeutic to understand the way the mind operates!

❤ 

[snowyowl]

On 28/02/2022 at 1:56 AM, VeganAwake said:

I'm not sure what you mean by consciousness.

Here it was recognized consciousness was just the body feeling alert or aware... it's not a big spiritual event or something!

There are definitely some very creative minds... although for the most part the mind seems to mostly just go in patters or circles in a very habitual/repetitive way whether it's consciously or subconsciously.

Yeah I'm sure it can seem to be very therapeutic to understand the way the mind operates!

❤ 

By consciousness I suppose I mean awareness, experience, perception. 

It's like asking, where does the sound from my radio 'come from'?  I'm aware of the sound but according to some folks, things appear out of nothing. So there's nothing else out there, just a spontaneous unfolding of perception. However that pov would lead to a very passive approach wouldn't it? If we didn't believe in invisible things (ie what's beyond our sensory wavelengths)  like radio waves, we wouldn't be motivated to invent radio technology.  Ideas like the subconscious give a reason to develop psychotherapy, rather than just giving a non-sequitor like unhappiness appearing from nowhere. 

Not that I personally can prove it to you, but maybe our beliefs affect what we do about our issues.  

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, snowyowl said:

By consciousness I suppose I mean awareness, experience, perception. 

It's like asking, where does the sound from my radio 'come from'?  I'm aware of the sound but according to some folks, things appear out of nothing. So there's nothing else out there, just a spontaneous unfolding of perception. However that pov would lead to a very passive approach wouldn't it? If we didn't believe in invisible things (ie what's beyond our sensory wavelengths)  like radio waves, we wouldn't be motivated to invent radio technology.  Ideas like the subconscious give a reason to develop psychotherapy, rather than just giving a non-sequitor like unhappiness appearing from nowhere. 

Not that I personally can prove it to you, but maybe our beliefs affect what we do about our issues.  

I get what you're saying.

That's the radical thing about Awakening, it kind of throws out the baby with the bathwater.

It's recognized there never was an unhappy or suffering individual in the first place.... it was an illusion or misunderstanding.

❤ 

[snowyowl]

@VeganAwake  Just to be clear, ideas like radio waves, subconscious mind, ultrasound etc are just models, maps, rather than being real in themselves. But helpful in the relative world.  

8 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It's recognized there never was an unhappy or suffering individual in the first place.... it was an illusion or misunderstanding.

Are you saying that awakening has ended suffering for you? Or does suffering still occur, just without an individual to have it? 

A reply to this type of question from Buddhists runs along the lines of, the body still feels physical pain but there's not the added layer of suffering caused by ego-resistance.  I'm interested in your experience of awakening, are you happier now post-awakening? 

Edited March 2, 2022 by snowyowl

[Spence94]

Yes...The Source.

[Mason Riggle]

2 hours ago, snowyowl said:

 I'm interested in your experience of awakening, are you happier now post-awakening? 

@snowyowl if it was understood what @VeganAwake was saying, this question wouldn't make sense. 

Consider that for most organisms, there is the sense of a physical body, and then ALSO an internal 'soul' or 'self' who 'is aware of the body' or who 'controls the body' etc.. 

What can happen is, some organisms recognize that there actually is no 'separate self' in addition to 'the body' any more than 'the fingers' are 'separate from the hand'.   

What this means for the organism, is that there is no 'Self' who suffers 'in addition to' what the body is feeling.  There is 'no one' to suffer over the suffering. 

So, when it's asked, 'are you happier now', recognize that the 'you' who is being asked doesn't exist.  The organism continues to experience happiness and sadness and whatever else it experiences, without the illusion of some 'separate self' who also suffers over the sadness, or who is 'happy' about the happiness.