Why is the left so sympathetic to Islam?

[Happy Lizard]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

I don't think all of left is green though. That's a huge error. They're mostly ignorant. A small portion is green. 

 

9 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

That is just an illusion. All left is same. 

my mistake then, but I guess we are not accurate about who exactly are we talking about as "the left" then ? 

[Preety_India]

Just now, Happy Lizard said:

 

my mistake then, but I guess we are not accurate about who exactly are we talking about as "the left" then ? 

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Preety_India .

I don't think the left is partitioned into regressives and progressives, to my knowledge such a distinction is not very clear. Left is more or less uniform. And I think left is simply more into Woke thinking than Green thinking. 

[Someone here]

My position on the evils of Islam is as follows;

1. Obvious any individual who had committed crimes of any sort should face the respective Laws without exception.

2. But, no Muslims should be blamed as the primary cause for the evils and violence that is happening in the present.

3. The Muslims who commit evils and violence are the ones who are unfortunately born with an active evil propensity and are subliminally influenced by the evil verses from the Quran.

4. The primary cause for all Islamic-based evils and violence should be traced to the Quran in relation to the identified sets [not single verse] of evil and violent elements therein. So it is not Muslims at all but the primary cause is the ideology of Islam i.e. the evil and violent elements in the Quran to be proven objectively.

5. An analogy is like Hitler and Nazism in the Main Kempf. In this case it it is not the German people then who are at fault. The primary fault is Hitler with his perverted mind who started that evil ideology of Nazism. The cronies and gang who help Hitler to enhance his evil ideology of Nazism is also guilty

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

My position on the evils of Islam is as follows;

1. Obvious any individual who had committed crimes of any sort should face the respective Laws without exception.

2. But, no Muslims should be blamed as the primary cause for the evils and violence that is happening in the present.

3. The Muslims who commit evils and violence are the ones who are unfortunately born with an active evil propensity and are subliminally influenced by the evil verses from the Quran.

4. The primary cause for all Islamic-based evils and violence should be traced to the Quran in relation to the identified sets [not single verse] of evil and violent elements therein. So it is not Muslims at all but the primary cause is the ideology of Islam i.e. the evil and violent elements in the Quran to be proven objectively.

5. An analogy is like Hitler and Nazism in the Main Kempf. In this case it it is not the German people then who are at fault. The primary fault is Hitler with his perverted mind who started that evil ideology of Nazism. The cronies and gang who help Hitler to enhance his evil ideology of Nazism is also guilty

 

 

[itachi uchiha]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

My position on the evils of Islam is as follows;

1. Obvious any individual who had committed crimes of any sort should face the respective Laws without exception.

2. But, no Muslims should be blamed as the primary cause for the evils and violence that is happening in the present.

3. The Muslims who commit evils and violence are the ones who are unfortunately born with an active evil propensity and are subliminally influenced by the evil verses from the Quran.

4. The primary cause for all Islamic-based evils and violence should be traced to the Quran in relation to the identified sets [not single verse] of evil and violent elements therein. So it is not Muslims at all but the primary cause is the ideology of Islam i.e. the evil and violent elements in the Quran to be proven objectively.

5. An analogy is like Hitler and Nazism in the Main Kempf. In this case it it is not the German people then who are at fault. The primary fault is Hitler with his perverted mind who started that evil ideology of Nazism. The cronies and gang who help Hitler to enhance his evil ideology of Nazism is also guilty

For fucks sake educate yourself

Damn ,all these average  masses are mass brainwashed 

We indian muslims are in danger of getting genocided because of retarded average indian  masses

 

According to u i am an extremist and terrorist beacuse i refuse to sell out my islamic values for liberalism as all other relegion except islam has done so

 

Watch the videos below to clear some of your misconceptions about islam

 

 

 

 

Stand up for us muslims. 80% indians are hindus and if u do not stand up we are fucked.

[Happy Lizard]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Why are liberals and leftists always defending Islam?

They have nothing but scorn for Christians who oppose the LGBT agenda. But Muslims oppose the LGBT agenda even more. To the point, in many Islamic countries, of killing gays.
Feminists attack Christianity for its alleged mistreatment of women. But Islam treats women far, far worse than anything seen in the West.

Similarly, Muslims in general support traditional sexual morality and oppose abortion. And, unlike Christians, in Islamic countries, they would likely punish the leftists who are agreeing with them for their secularism and unbelief.

When a terrorist turns out to be a Muslim, those on the left make a point of saying that we shouldn’t blame all Muslims, which is true enough. And yet when a Christian does something that offends them, they don’t make the same caution against over-generalization about Christianity. Indeed, they often tar all Christians with the same brush.

................

Why?

the points you bring are grate, whoever here's my take as to why?

most of this I think is probably what I call "white guilt", unfortunately but also not very strangely, white American have conflicted between being white and being christian. they asks themselves 'who are we' and the answer is ' we are white christian'. This is a shallow understanding of what white means and a misunderstanding of context ironically since green/left is very aware of context.

the left/green is very aware of oppressed people and of racial issue, it tends to want to include at all cost, and anything that breaks the community/the oneness/ the relationships between countries/nationalities/races is a no go! There's a heart openness at green/left which can not be explained by facts, not because green/left is stupid but because it's in this stage to be loving and inclusive. in a sense you can think about this as the green/left's gym, they are in it to be as inclusive and loving as possible, they have strengthened there minds in critical thinking an facts, so they are just not doing gonna listen to facts because the are fed up with it anyways. 

guilt is guilt however, and it's better if white Christinas are more loving towards themselves and their people as others, but that doesn't come that essay unfortunately. 



 

[Someone here]

From my perspective, the reason for the regressive left [re Islam] is due to Obama's placating to Muslims and allowing them to infiltrate the White House.
In addition, the Islamist use their oil money to corrupt academia with their $$$ in donations of various universities in the US and around the world.
This is why at present there is no room in most universities in the US for any one to give any speech where Islam is mentioned  .

 

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, itachi uchiha said:

For fucks sake educate yourself

Damn ,all these average  masses are mass brainwashed 

We indian muslims are in danger of getting genocided because of retarded average indian  masses

 

According to u i am an extremist and terrorist beacuse i refuse to sell out my islamic values for liberalism as all other relegion except islam has done so

 

Watch the videos below to clear some of your misconceptions about islam

 

 

 

 

Stand up for us muslims. 80% indians are hindus and if u do not stand up we are fucked.

disagree with your views;
"western democracy and capitalism is the more primary problem"

You cannot be that short-sighted when;

1. The terrible evils and violence from SOME Islamist started long before Western Democracy and capitalism.

2. Islamic terror started since 1,400 years ago when Islam was establish in the Middle East.

3. The Taliban, Boko Haram and Islam in essence is against anything which is not Islamic, e.g. education [note the case of Malala, and Boko Haram's mission].

4. The genocides of the Yazidis, Armenians, Hindus has nothing to do with Western Democracy and capitalism.

5. Note the cultural genocides where historical sites, building, artifacts are destroyed for being not acceptable to Islam.

Many give excuses for the current terror in blaming Western interventions but this is merely the secondary problem.

Note this true real reason why true Muslims hate non-Muslims.
This is what was extracted from ISIS's newsletter [mine].

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Happy Lizard said:

the points you bring are grate, whoever here's my take as to why?

most of this I think is probably what I call "white guilt", unfortunately but also not very strangely, white American have conflicted between being white and being christian. they asks themselves 'who are we' and the answer is ' we are white christian'. This is a shallow understanding of what white means and a misunderstanding of context ironically since green/left is very aware of context.

the left/green is very aware of oppressed people and of racial issue, it tends to want to include at all cost, and anything that breaks the community/the oneness/ the relationships between countries/nationalities/races is a no go! There's a heart openness at green/left which can not be explained by facts, not because green/left is stupid but because it's in this stage to be loving and inclusive. in a sense you can think about this as the green/left's gym, they are in it to be as inclusive and loving as possible, they have strengthened there minds in critical thinking an facts, so they are just not doing gonna listen to facts because the are fed up with it anyways. 

guilt is guilt however, and it's better if white Christinas are more loving towards themselves and their people as others, but that doesn't come that essay unfortunately. 



 

And so it says as much in the Bible? And you can see why they say abortion is wrong and homosexuality is a sin. Islam and Christianity have more in common than not. By all means talk about the evil of religious institutions. To single out Islam is utterly ridiculous.

Am I sympathetic left? No, I have no sympathy for deluded individuals. My aim is to cut through the BS and start dialogue rather than cast around accusations.

I know a little about Islam myself. I also know many Muslims see the "war" and interpret the words from Arabic as representing an inner struggle. Much like the Bible they take it metaphorically not literally (some get it wrong, much like those in the Bible belt who believe the world was created in seven days by some deity).

Let us not forget these religious texts were written and put together LONG after the people involved had died. They no doubt hold some seed of the original persons involved, but they were used by religious institutions to gain popular favour.

As a rational human being I believe the main personas involved had a great influence and inspiring affect on those around them. From this point I take what positivity I can from what remains of them and remember how they ALL generally preach peace, freedom and human worth. OF course due to political circumstances and cultural attitudes of the times it is clear that those issues have been imprinted upon the mythology of these people too. No doubt these individuals faulted also, I am sure they were aware of their own faults.

What people protest against is singling out a group of people and demonizing them (also a popular tactic of Christianity). Your personal view of Islam and experience does not hold baring on everyone elses. That is probably why you fail to understand other views that are not "sympathetic", but are generally opposing sweeping statements made by individuals that paint a whole group of people as "evil".

[Happy Lizard]

28 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I don't think the left is partitioned into regressives and progressives, to my knowledge such a distinction is not very clear. Left is more or less uniform. And I think left is simply more into Woke thinking than Green thinking. 

what is woke thinking ? what are you referring to ?

there's a movment towards being post progressive-left now/yellow

I think most lefties are green proper it's been too long in America that green has existed, it's not so hard to define now like it was 50 years ago. who's ever on the left is on board with most green values I think.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Happy Lizard

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Happy Lizard said:

what's is woke thinking ? what are you referring to ?

there's a movment towards being post progressive-left now/yellow

I think most lefties are green proper it's been too long in American that green has existed, it's not so hard to define now like it was 50 years ago. how's ever on the left is on board with most green values. 

Then why are they so ridiculous? I thought Green could do better! 

 

[Happy Lizard]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

Then why are they so ridiculous? I thought Green could do better! 

 

green IS ridiculous! that's the point, though it's wrong to think that's it's stupid. it's just got a fire of rebel in it 

[Happy Lizard]

14 minutes ago, Someone here said:

To single out Islam is utterly ridiculous.

true that's exactly what I meant by my post. it's absurd but the left is too busy to see it. 

16 minutes ago, Someone here said:

That is probably why you fail to understand other views that are not "sympathetic", but are generally opposing sweeping statements made by individuals that paint a whole group of people as "evil".

and is the 'evil' statment good? neither is right in my opinion. I wasn't defending the left/green, we agree on a lot from what I understood from your post, neither saying 'all muslims are bad' or 'all muslims are good' is good or right or thoughtful.

 

[Husseinisdoingfine]

Because Islam can be practiced at multiple elevations, and just because someone practices Islam doesn't mean that they have extremists views.

Some of the best God realized mystics that have every lived were (sufi) Muslims.

Muslim regions of the world have had centuries of western interference and exploitation, so maybe that is the reason why those parts of the world are underdeveloped. So of course the left is going to have compassion for these people, as they have suffered oppression.

[Carl-Richard]

Because they are more able to account for contextual factors like geopolitics. You just gave a purely individualistic analysis.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

A couple of points

• The left are afraid of criticizing Islam because of they are scared of the backlash. They have no spine. 
• They want to prove desperately that they are not racist and Islamophobic so they start pandering to Muslims to make a point 
• They view Islam as an exotic religion or culture so they want to appear welcoming to exotic cultures 
• They are mostly ignorant of Islamic beliefs 
• They view Islamic groups as a weak, oppressed, minority and they go into savior mode to protect this minority. 
• They want to appear woke so being critical of their own religion makes them look modern and woke. 
• They view their own men as "lame ass shit" and view Muslim men as "masculine." 
• They think they are not supposed to meddle with the beliefs and affairs of Muslims so they don't pay much attention to Islamic beliefs as it does not impact them in any way. 
• They think that there are extremist Muslims and moderate Muslims. 
• Muslims defend themselves very actively against any racism or Islamophobia so it is difficult to attack them. Christians don't defend themselves like that. So it's easy to attack a beaten horse. 

 

This list is utter idiocy and bigoted against a group for which you do not understand.

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Because Islam can be practiced at multiple elevations, and just because someone practices Islam doesn't mean that they have extremists views.

Some of the best God realized mystics that have every lived were (sufi) Muslims.

Muslim regions of the world have had centuries of western interference and exploitation, so maybe that is the reason why those parts of the world are underdeveloped. So of course the left is going to have compassion for these people, as they have suffered oppression.

Muslims insist their holy texts, i.e. the Quran of the present are exactly word for word what was originally revealed to Muhammad via Gabriel from Allah.
Christians believe the doctrines [not necessary word for word] are exactly what God had revealed to Jesus.
Non-believers will dispute the above points but it has no relevance to believer who will follow what God said in the holy texts literally.


Note the Principles of Being a Believer;

Though not mentioned explicitly,
a Christian and Muslim is a believer who has entered into a spiritual contract [covenant] with God and Allah respectively with the following terms;
1. Believers will believe in God and his son, messenger in Islam.
2. Believers will believe in the message of God, Bible, Quran 100%.
3. In return, God promise believers eternal life in Paradise.

Since there is a contract, the believer must comply with all the terms and conditions as stipulated in the holy texts and no where else.
As such a Christian must follow what is in the Bible 100% to the best of one's ability.
A Muslim must follow what is in the Quran 100% to the best of one's ability.
Regardless of what the holy texts said, all of God's command are taken to be good.

Not obeying the commands of God would be a sin and the possibility the believer will not end up in Paradise and could end up in Hell.

Note the modern Arabic dictionary define 'jihad = holy war'. This is not what Allah meant in the Quran, 'jihad' in the Quran is merely mean struggle or strive.
But there are many verses in the Quran which directly and indirectly condone and inspire Muslims to fight and kill non-Muslims.

In the Quran, there are verses [objectively verifiable] which exhort Muslims to hate and fight non-Muslims as evident by ISIS' view above.

Now all Muslims has signed a contract with Allah to obey the Quran, so if the Quran mention the Muslims must fight and kill non-Muslims under certain conditions [zalim, fasad, etc.] [note the 6 reasons given in the earlier post], then Muslims are contractually obligated to do in accordance to the terms of the contract. This is the simple operation of the Law of Contract!

Those Muslims who do not comply with the commands and words of Allah - where they can - are committing sins and in the eyes of Allah.
The majority of Muslims who do not obey Allah's commands in the Allah are being more inclined to human moral values rather than Quranic values and ignorantly has failed to comply with the terms of the contract they have signed with Allah.


As for Christians,
within the NT which contain the terms of their contract with God, there is an overriding pacifist maxim, i.e. love your enemies, love this and love that.. etc.
So to comply with the term of their contract, they must love their enemies instead of fighting and killing them.
So those Christians who had killed their enemies, they are likely be reprimanded by God on Judgment Day and God may be lenient if they have justified non-premeditated reasons.

I had made comparison between Islam and Christianity and there is obviously a significant fundamental difference in their treatment of non-believers. I have singled out Islam based on this difference regarding the contractual terms.

Additional point;
I mentioned the Quran, but the existing of the majority of Muslims insist the Ahadith [worst in term of evils and violence] is also an critical addendum to the terms of contract with Allah. As such Muslims are obliged to comply with the terms in the Ahadith which condones hatred and violence against non-Muslims.

The above is truth which I can substantiate with verses from the Quran and Ahadith as an when necessary. One advantage I have is there is solid empirical evils and violence committed by SOME Muslims who are evil prone and inspired by evil laden verses in the Quran.

I have no problem changing my mind if you can prove I am wrong.

[Roy]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

They have nothing but scorn for Christians who oppose the LGBT agenda. But Muslims oppose the LGBT agenda even more. To the point, in many Islamic countries, of killing gays.
Feminists attack Christianity for its alleged mistreatment of women. But Islam treats women far, far worse than anything seen in the West.

Don't expect people to be logically consistent, you'll be disappointed. The majority of people are fundamentally irrational and hypocritical. They are just behaving and thinking in whatever way is convenient to the ego. Their priority is their own biases first and foremost.

Around orange and the materialist level you'll find those most guilty of this "Gotchya!" mentality, and while it may be a useful tool to expose outright blatant stupidity, it's returns start to diminish when you use it for every little minor offense you find. Feminists may be inconsistent and do or say some stupid things, but it's mostly just collateral. They are actively trying to improve the world and fight injustice/corruption, way more than you can say for most people.

[Loba]

I don't know...?  I'm more left-leaning, and I support both Christianity and Islam - I think religion has a lot to offer - I have had awakenings and can see what all religions point towards and have a soft spot for all religions.

[Someone here]

The real conclusion is Islam is partly very evil which is evident by the evil laden verses in the Quran that inspire some Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence which is empirically evident.

So those who are blinkered by the above unsound syllogism, do take note of the truth based on empirical evidences, do detailed analysis and rationalization. I strongly recommend all non-Muslims and even Muslims to read the Quran thoroughly and understanding its various elements, i.e. good and evil.