"Burning through karma" and "embracing the devil" in relation to abusers

[The Rainmaker]

Do you think that some of these core philosophies, such as embracing the devil and burning through of karma, and even forgiveness itself, can be misinterpreted as advice for abuse victims to return to their abuser(s)? 

Don't get me wrong-- I've used some of these techniques myself to surprising benefit, but don't you think that some of these philosophies combined can inadvertently lead to devilish decisions?  

[Cathal]

if someone is attached to being a victim of some kind of abuse then fundamentally either of those make no sense or will have no effect in reality

Edited February 24, 2022 by catcat69123

[Loba]

Leave, heal, then forgive.

[Cathal]

@Trickyp the amount of suffering someone causes themselves by wanting revenge or 'justice' is really crazy. i mean, really nuts. because the thing is, it's just ignorance, there is a seperate you attaching itself to a story of being a victim and IT IS TRUE that another being creates great pain onto you, but the suffering you create for yourself by attaching yourself to this story of being the victim of an abuser is really a lifetime of torturing yourself

when you are a victim, you give your power away. you don't want to be responsible to deal with that pain, and that is just reality, a rock falls on your leg but you don't carry the pain by blaming the rock forever, you process and resolve trauma by truly feeling it. these stories of being a victim, is because great effort went into trying to exclude something in reality, the what is, the sound of a river, the pain of being attacked by your parents, the neglect of being unwanted, there is a great pain that can be felt and processed, but when ignored avoided and externalized onto some seperate person then great suffering happens inside of you --- 

resolving these things aren't easy, but when you use understanding to resolve things, there you can introduce genuine compassion for yourself and you can understand more and more why other humans project there suffering onto other humans, and more and more compassion can be found, more and more depth of compassion creates more healing within yourself, it works like that

it's almost like it's teaching us that suffering is what creates compassion and with that compassion the healing for those pains

[Preety_India]

I can understand forgiveness and embracing the devil. 

Can you explain me how burning through karma is related to this? 

[The Rainmaker]

@Preety_India Burning through karma is related to the fulfillment of the innermost earthly desires and cravings, which can entail returning to an old partner based on raw feelings rather than true and practical compatibility. 

[The Rainmaker]

@catcat69123 I completely agree with the mentality of not giving someone that power over you. I mean more so, "can that practical advice potentially lead to impractical behavior?" I've used these techniques myself with favorable results previously, so I don't doubt their merit. 

[mandyjw]

Core philosophies? 

The moth (you) ARE the devil and the moth (the self) can burn up in the flame as it realizes it was only ever the flame the whole time. In forgiveness there is no one to forgive, either to DO it or to receive it. In life intelligent action such as pressing charges, or maintaining distance, or focusing on what is wanted instead of what is not wanted are still wise. It's the end of the subtle emotional suffering that is the end of the illusory you. 

The illusory you is marked by suffering, that suffering is guidance from Love telling you that you are thinking yourself to be a part from it. There is no "you" to have karma that needs burning through. 

A Desire is whole Love within itself, it is also guidance and direction but we often coopt desire and suffer for it, this is not true whole Desire. For example, if I sit here and dream of a tropical beach and enjoy the dream, that desire is whole. But if I think a lot about how I don't have money for plane tickets I'm suffering. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by mandyjw

[Preety_India]

17 minutes ago, The Rainmaker said:

@Preety_India Burning through karma is related to the fulfillment of the innermost earthly desires and cravings, which can entail returning to an old partner based on raw feelings rather than true and practical compatibility. 

 

Ahh yes. I definitely think you got a point with your post. It's very tough to not be tempted to do the wrong things with those kind of concepts. Those are very tricky. They can bring healing to a troubled soul for someone finding it difficult to heal in the presence of evil, yet someone can take it to the extreme and start forgiving all kinds of things, some people get extremely charitable to the point of cringe and detriment. 

I especially cringe when someone talks about forgiving Hitler. 

Sometimes it can even take the undertones of gaslighting. 

Like for example, if a rape victim makes a thread on her trauma,.people in the spiritual community will jump to tell her to forgive the rapist, not realizing how sensitive this matter is for her, not understanding the human psyche 

That's why I sometimes think that there has to be some sort of a bridge between spirituality and human psychology. For spirituality to be truly productive. 

I myself had a similar experience 2 years ago on this forum where I had asked about my maternal trauma and someone suggested that I forgive my mother and that triggered the shit out of me because forgiveness was the last thing on my mind. 

So yes I totally get your point. Sometimes I call. It spiritual abuse when these concepts are used unproductively to the detriment of a person's wellbeing, when they are forced to follow something that their heart genuinely doesn't want to 

 

I also consider it to be spiritual abuse when someone is demonized because of their inability to forgive. Maybe their trauma is so deep, they simply cannot forgive 

So when people roll out spiritual platitudes and not being realistic, I'm drawn to ask - are you fucking kidding me, do you even realize the depth of the issue 

A lot of neo-advaita type of teaching can feel like trolling 

 

Imagine if you said, "I'm hurt" and the neo-advaita response is something like "there's no you" or this is just a thought 

It's like someone is trolling you. Because spirituality should be about empathy. And this kind of spirituality can take away empathy from the practitioner rather than cultivate it. 

You know what I mean. 

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Preety_India