I asked Rupert Spira directly about solipsism - here is what he said

[Loba]

@OBEler Good idea!

[Bufo Alvarius]

His next online Satsang is on the 27.7 and is accessible for as little as 1,77€.

Here's a link for anybody interested in joining the conversation. You can ask Rupert any question, the satsang runs about an hour.

https://rupertspira.com/event/2022-02-27-webinar-sunday-27th-february-from-4-00pm-uk

[RMQualtrough]

1 hour ago, Bufo Alvarius said:

I attended Rupert's online satsang and asked him directly about his stance on solipsism and recorded an audio of the conversation we had.

IMO Rupert kept beating around the bush, maybe also partly because my inquiry might have been not concise enough.

Apologies in advance if I didn't manage to include all objections that have been made by you guys in the many posts about that topic. I tried my best to get Rupert to give an definite answer to that question.

Here's a link to the audio (12 min):

https://sndup.net/kgy3/

Did you delete this audio?

I've seen him discuss similar topics before. Solipsism does not align with the type of monism I encountered... How do you describe experiencing oneness with "Brahman"? Maybe analogous to having a mask removed which was this person. If everyone had their mask removed we are the same entity which is Brahman. Something like that.

The ego and the appearances are finite. A solipsist will take, say, a measly 5 senses and some contrasts, and think that clearly limited appearance is the totality of all possible appearances contained within infinity. It doesn't make sense.

[Bufo Alvarius]

@RMQualtrough nope, it is still accessible via the link.

[Nadosa]

58 minutes ago, Bufo Alvarius said:

@Leo Gura The last 2-3 min of the audio were the most important. I'm paraphrasing:

 

Me: "Is God experiencing all bubbles of consciousness simultaneously outside/beyond my bubble of consciousness?"

Rupert: "Yes, you as consciousness are looking simultaneously through the lenses of all finite minds."

You should have asked him about Maharshi's quote: "there are no others"

or Nisargadatta: "First know your own mind and you will find that the question of other minds does not arise at all, for there are no other people. You are the common factor, the only link between the minds, Being is consciousness; ‘I am’ applies to all."

"This [helping people] is mere imagination. In truth you do not help others, because there are no others. (313)

In reality there are no others, and by helping yourself you help everybody else. (383)"

Edited February 24, 2022 by Nadosa

[Bufo Alvarius]

@Nadosa Join the next satsang and ask him 

[Forza21]

14 minutes ago, Bufo Alvarius said:

His next online Satsang is on the 27.7 and is accessible for as little as 1,77€.

Here's a link for anybody interested in joining the conversation. You can ask Rupert any question, the satsang runs about an hour.

https://rupertspira.com/event/2022-02-27-webinar-sunday-27th-february-from-4-00pm-uk

What's the difference between those for 1,77 and 17 €. ? i don't see any information about that.

[Spiral Wizard]

47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't agree with Spira's position. Which is why I say he's not fully awake

Lol

[RMQualtrough]

6 minutes ago, Benton said:

@Leo Gura does he not understand oneness? Maybe I’ve overestimated some of these people. I thought the realization that they are me just comes with oneness. And going into this moment. I’ve never found a thing outside. How could someone this conscious miss this? Isn’t intelligence instantaneous? The mind of other my own. No other minds no separation of consciousness and intelligence? What am I missing here? 

He understands it well.

He is teaching the Advaita Vedanta tradition. What he is saying, is that there is nothing outside Brahman. That is our true nature.

In Vedanta they have an "Atman", which is the Self.

And Atman (the Self), is Brahman. Everything is Brahman. Atman is an expression of Brahman. Close metaphor would be a tree as Brahman, and the leaves as Atman.

[Yarco]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The future is imaginary.

I think I can follow the solipsism idea pretty well, but here is where I get a little bit lost.

Is the past also imaginary, even the first-hand experiences we've had ourselves? Obviously stuff like WWII, even our own birth, ie. anything we didn't directly witness is imaginary. But what about our life yesterday, or even a second ago?

Is the entire idea of time passing an illusion? There is really only the present moment and I imagined even my own life up until now?

I understand that the idea of death is imaginary, or at least purely conceptual. I have never died myself, only witnessed other characters in the dream dying. But is it possible for us to know what happens after death? Or if death is even possible? Are we are stuck in a present moment, essentially immortal?

Is the idea of my body aging up to this point also a lie, so I don't have to worry about getting old and dying?

Or is dying possible in the same sense of waking up completely? I get that if death is possible, everyone else and the world and universe will all blink out with us. But assuming death is possible, what happens after? Is it just absolute nothingness?

How do we differentiate the scientific nothingness that awaits after death from the spiritual absolute nothingness of god?

Is there possibility of starting over as a new character in an entirely different dream? How would god go from nothing back to something? Or is this unknowable?

[Juan]

44 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura Can you have a conversation with Rubert Spira, this would be total epic.

I agree. I been thinking if @Leo Gura would be open to do a Λ’s version talk with Rupert, Langan, or even now if with Jordan Peterson (might be too chaotic) since now Curt connected with him but I wouldn’t get so high my expectations.

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Juan

[Forza21]

Just now, Yarco said:

I think I can follow the solipsism idea pretty well, but here is where I get a little bit lost.

Is the past also imaginary, even the first-hand experiences we've had ourselves? Obviously stuff like WWII, even our own birth, ie. anything we didn't directly witness is imaginary. But what about our life yesterday, or even a second ago?

Is the entire idea of time passing an illusion? There is really only the present moment and I imagined even my own life up until now?

I understand that the idea of death is imaginary, or at least purely conceptual. I have never died myself, only witnessed other characters in the dream dying. But is it possible for us to know what happens after death? Or if death is even possible? Are we are stuck in a present moment, essentially immortal?

Is the idea of my body aging up to this point also a lie, so I don't have to worry about getting old and dying?

Or is dying possible in the same sense of waking up completely? I get that if death is possible, everyone else and the world and universe will all blink out with us. But assuming death is possible, what happens after? Is it just absolute nothingness?

How do we differentiate the scientific nothingness that awaits after death from the spiritual absolute nothingness of god?

Is there possibility of starting over as a new character in an entirely different dream? How would god go from nothing back to something? Or is this unknowable?

Think about  film reel. 

Your perception is that you see the movie going. That's the illusion of time.

But what happens when you completely open the film reel? 

 

Every image, every situation, everything that ever happened, just stops. Everything already is, time is an illusion.

[Bufo Alvarius]

@Forza21 sliding scale, pay as you can afford to.

[GreenWoods]

18 minutes ago, Nadosa said:

You should have asked him about Maharshi's quote: "there are no others"

or Nisargadatta: "First know your own mind and you will find that the question of other minds does not arise at all, for there are no other people. You are the common factor, the only link between the minds, Being is consciousness; ‘I am’ applies to all."

"This [helping people] is mere imagination. In truth you do not help others, because there are no others. (313)

In reality there are no others, and by helping yourself you help everybody else. (383)"

Nice quotes!

But people will interpret them differently.

You could interpret "no other" as no other egos, only God/Consciosness exists, and you as well as every bubble is That. Or you could interpret it as no other bubbles exist.

[RMQualtrough]

1 minute ago, Benton said:

@RMQualtrough find something outside of this. And if you go to the godhead try and find something outside that. If you aren’t directly conscious of it it doesn’t exist. I don’t exist this is just symbols which you interpret.

Don't just on faith parrot some random dude who gets high on threshold amounts of drugs and jerks off... See for yourself what you think.

(Leo's first trip with 5 was an actual "release dose". The video is titled Leo becomes infinity or something. I don't know if he's ever done that again since then which was years ago).

My interpretation of the experience was aligned with Vedanta. On Leo's last video (maybe deleted?) I'd say he hasn't achieved some magical place beyond anyone else who goes through intense high dose psychedelic states.

My interpretation was that there could never be anything outside of Brahman. When my mask was removed I felt to be one and the same as Brahman. As the ego slowly came back, I started to feel simultaneously below Brahman (the ego self as it came back online), and yet also Brahman in totality (the maskless consciousness which was temporarily the only thing when the ego mask dissolved). The more the ego came back, the less I felt to be the totality of Brahman.

I interpreted it exactly like a tree. I did not then know about all this bullshit, that was an unadulterated interpretation, no influence from external expectations.

[Shambhu]

@RMQualtrough

12 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

And Atman (the Self), is Brahman. Everything is Brahman. Atman is an expression of Brahman. Close metaphor would be a tree as Brahman, and the leaves as Atman.

While leaves are part of a tree, leaves and tree do not share the same equivalency.  Also, there are many leaves, while only one tree.  

There is only one Brahman, and there is only one Atman; they are the same.  This is the meaning of the mahavakya "Ayam Atma Brahma," or "the Self is Brahman." 

[RevoCulture]

@Bufo Alvarius @Shambhu

If the unified field, eternal consciousness, Tat, etc., was intended to be the only expression then there conceivably wouldn't be any division or manifested expression.  There are expressions of divisions, what we are, and experience.  Both exist at the same time.

The idea that "only you," exists seems suspect unless it is referencing the eternal nature, the unified position.  No doubt a person could make a strong narrative about everything and everyone be an expression of the eternal, therefore, there is only you.  I find this position to be very black and white (a position that works well for people who desire complete authority, to know explicitly, that believe truth can be distilled into a very linear and singular answer. Free of any complexity that mirrors say the likes of modern physics and classical physics.  They both form the reality we experience yet operate on aspects that can and do oppose one another.)  Just because the unified field serves as the base doesn't negate the manifested expression. One is not necessarily more true than the other, they are both true.  The absolute truth is an acknowledgment of the entire design, not the point of purest distillation.  A lie truthfully misrepresents.  A lie is a truth of a peculiar kind.

We begin our seeker journey in a strong dualistic position, win / lose, right / wrong, truth / illusion. We naturally seek a definitive and absolute position, we aren't accustomed to making absolute truth a complex paradox.  The obsession with unity and the unified field of consciousness is something to contemplate.

The unified didn't remain unified, it manifested.  We have this and that.  This was the chosen path.  The unified lies behind all and the manifested expression created distinction, two states existing at once. 

Question, when a person dies, the people who are saying that "only you" exist and that you are creating everything from your mind,  is this camp saying that the world, that existence, ends with their death?  It is the only mind that exists, it creates everything within reality, and when it dies it shuts off, everything is done, game over.  That would be the course that would transpire according to the position.

Again, this makes sense if a person continues to advocate for the fact that unified consciousness is the root of all expression, that all expression is this.  I agree that this a truth, but not the whole truth.  There is a division that exists at the same time that deserves to be acknowledged.  I feel people equate division with negative connotations and being unified as "spiritual" or "advanced" or "positive.'

If the design is intentionally dividing and allowing the parts to traverse the path back towards unity, then many minds or bubbles fit the design requirements.  Yes they are still unified and that is a "deeper truth or absolute truth," but the division is equally true and it's true to the design.  Unified is not preferable or better or more spiritual, or more righteous.  Classical and modern physics coexist. One says the other isn't true but they are both true, a paradox of sorts.

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by RevoCulture

[RMQualtrough]

6 minutes ago, Shambhu said:

@RMQualtrough

While leaves are part of a tree, leaves and tree do not share the same equivalency.  Also, there are many leaves, while only one tree.  

There is only one Brahman, and there is only one Atman; they are the same.  This is the meaning of the mahavakya "Ayam Atma Brahma," or "the Self is Brahman." 

IME when the mask dissolved I felt to be one with what I now understand would be termed Brahman. As the ego came back and I gained the ability to talk again, I felt a split where my ego self was simultaneously there and was below Brahman, and yet I as sheer awareness was Brahman entirely.

I hallucinated a goddess at that point. I spoke to the goddess. I mention this as the goddess entity I spoke with felt to be above my ego self which I spoke to it through, but below and part of what had been behind the ego mask. That's my own encounter with what I felt to be the divine.

[Mosess]

you idiot

 

[Mosess]

can't you see, how blind can one be?

The only thing that you know is you.

I can tell you about how conscious i am, even if god appears infront of you and reveals how conscious he is, you can not confirm it

accept the truth, grow up, mature.

I am 22 years old, and i am slowly coming to accept this raw fact.

There is only I am.

deal with it and become an adult

love, turn pain into love.

turn your misfortunes to love and spread that love to anyone who dares come near it.

Cuddos, 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Mosess