What are your thoughts on whether Finland and /or Sweden should join Nato now?

[Miguel1]

For the sake of the world balance. I'm interested in hearing your deep thoughts about this.

What are the potential dangers, consequences?

What are the potential accomplishments?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWcJkVyJqIc

[Blackhawk]

Sweden and Finland should join Nato.

[BlueOak]

There is a better option. Defensive treaties that everyone, even Russia signs, which protect Finland and Sweden from attack by anyone, even those in the treaty. That would be an idealistic middle ground.

Failing that yes. I realise this risks a greater war that even I may end up in, but without it territorial ambitions may extended to Finland at some point. We may be headed to a larger war anyway. I didn't see this day coming, I resisted seeing it, so now yes I am open to the possibility Finland, Poland, Romania and the Baltic states may see convential war. This is why you see such worried response from the baltic leaders, they obviously see it too.

[Blackhawk]

2 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

There is a better option. Defensive treaties that everyone, even Russia signs, which protect Finland and Sweden from attack by anyone, even those in the treaty. That would be an idealistic middle ground.

What? Try to live in reality instead of creating fantasies about some imaginary treaties which could never work.

[Ulax]

Too complex a geopolitical question to give a quickfire answer too, imo

[Blackhawk]

Just now, Ulax said:

Too complex a geopolitical question to give a quickfire answer too, imo

No it's not.

[BlueOak]

4 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

What? Try to live in reality instead of creating fantasies about some imaginary treaties which could never work.

You are probably right.

[Ulax]

@Blackhawk Guess we disagree then

[BlueOak]

I'll only add that the kind of treaty i suggested was a possibility for mutual defense until about 24 hours ago. It would have been a potential compromise over Ukraine as well. Now its very much an us verse them moment for the years ahead.

[actuallyenlightened]

Currently Russia seems unconcerned with Finland/Sweden. No need to give them a reason to be 

[Ananta]

2 hours ago, actuallyenlightened said:

Currently Russia seems unconcerned with Finland/Sweden. No need to give them a reason to be 

Yeah, until they get another hair up their ass and then it's too late.

[Ananta]

15 hours ago, Ananta said:

Yeah, until they get another hair up their ass and then it's too late.

Looks like it didn't take long!

"The Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson, Maria Zakharova has warned both Finland and Sweden that they will face “severe military and political consequences” if they attempt to join NATO."

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-threatens-finland-sweden-nato-ukraine-invasion-1682715?amp=1

Edited February 25, 2022 by Ananta

[vizual]

Finland shouldn’t join Nato because I don’t think Putin has any plans to invade Finland. Finland was a major pain in the ass for the Soviets during WW2 and I don’t think Putin wants to burn himself like that. The risk/reward for Putin is just not in his favor. He would rather push through to Moldova, than to invade Finland.

And Finland have no interest in joining NATO unless their hand is forced. At this moment their hand is not forced. 

[Ananta]

29 minutes ago, vizual said:

And Finland have no interest in joining NATO unless their hand is forced.

"Finland has been debating for months whether the country should apply for NATO membership "

https://thehill.com/policy/international/595656-finland-says-debate-on-nato-membership-will-change-after-russian

[Blackhawk]

@Ananta I'm glad that you think Sweden and Finland should join Nato.

[Guru Peter Jordanson]

The Swedish ancestors (and Finns) had plenty of wars with Russian. No wonder they are very vocally against the war even before it even started. War trauma passes on through generations.

Finland has a long border with Russia. Nato member states are obliged to have military training and are able to build bases in a member state. That is a huge disinterest for Putin. It also can be a burden to the Finns if an actual Nato-Russia war starts. 

Todays Finns and Swedes haven't had much modern practical experience in wars like Nato and Russia have gained.

Therefore, Finland and Sweden should join Nato ASAP.

Putin announced that military action would be taken against Sweden or/and Finland if they consider to join Nato. We already know what happened with Ukraine and Georgia when they consider Nato membership.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Guru Peter Jordanson

[Blackhawk]

When I read what swedes say online: it suddenly seems like every swede is for Sweden joining NATO. A huge change.

Let's hope that what I see is true for the whole population.

And if our retarded government still refuses to join NATO, then every swede should go to the streets and demonstrate that we should join NATO.

[Ananta]

"Countries who wish to join Nato must follow a Membership Action Plan which is an application process that involves outlining security and political policies.

The Membership Action Plan helps “aspiring members prepare for membership and meet key requirements by providing practical advice and targeted assistance."

"But this can be a lengthy undertaking.

North Macedonia took 20 years to complete the plan before it joined Nato in 2020."

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/how-can-countries-join-nato-full-list-of-members-why-russia-ukraine-joining-1477836

 

So, just because a country decides they want to be a NATO member doesn't mean they will be one, especially because I heard all NATO members have to agree to that country being a part of NATO, on top of all the other application issues that can take considerable time. 

[Husseinisdoingfine]

NATO is an imperialist Capitalist organization which serves the interests of multi National corporations via militarily plundering the global south and taking their recourses, and dominating their labor markets.
Anyone who tries to resist first world Capitalist hegemony gets a knock on their door from NATO. 
Any proper Leftist should be opposed of their country joining such an organization.

 

[Blackhawk]

4 minutes ago, Ananta said:

"Countries who wish to join Nato must follow a Membership Action Plan which is an application process that involves outlining security and political policies.

The Membership Action Plan helps “aspiring members prepare for membership and meet key requirements by providing practical advice and targeted assistance."

"But this can be a lengthy undertaking.

North Macedonia took 20 years to complete the plan before it joined Nato in 2020."

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/how-can-countries-join-nato-full-list-of-members-why-russia-ukraine-joining-1477836

 

So, just because a country decides they want to be a NATO member doesn't mean they will be one, especially because I heard all NATO members have to agree to that country being a part of NATO, on top of all the other application issues that can take considerable time. 

Sweden and Finland would be a different thing. It would go faster than 20 years. But yes it would still take time.

1 minute ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

NATO is an imperialist Capitalist organization which serves the interests of multi National corporations via militarily plundering the global south and taking their recourses, and dominating their labor markets.
Anyone who tries to resist first world Capitalist hegemony gets a knock on their door from NATO. 
Any proper Leftist should be opposed of their country joining such an organization.

 

That's a stupid conspiracy theory.

Just ignore what Husseinisdoingfine said.