Request to Leo, to make blog post/video about Putin behavior in Ukraine.

[Blackhawk]

16 minutes ago, somegirl said:

+1

Putin is an insine one though, right? Let's forget NATO's bombing of Syria, libya, Yugoslavia... lol

"Operation Unified Protector was a NATO operation in 2011 enforcing United Nations Security Council resolutions 1970 and 1973 concerning the Libyan Civil War and adopted on 26 February and 17 March 2011, respectively.

These resolutions imposed sanctions on key members of the Gaddafi government and authorized NATO to implement an arms embargo, a no-fly zone and to use all means necessary, short of foreign occupation, to protect Libyan civilians and civilian populated areas."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unified_Protector

---------

NATO didn't go into Syria.

---------

"NATO's intervention was prompted by Yugoslavia's bloodshed and ethnic cleansing of Albanians, which drove the Albanians into neighbouring countries and had the potential to destabilize the region. Yugoslavia's actions had already provoked condemnation by international organisations and agencies such as the UN, NATO, and various INGOs. Yugoslavia refused to sign the Rambouillet Accords which was offered as an initial justification for NATO's use of force.

NATO countries attempted to gain authorisation from the UN Security Council for military action, but were opposed by China and Russia, who indicated that they would veto such a measure. As a result, NATO launched its campaign without the UN's approval, stating that it was a humanitarian intervention. "

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

Edited February 26, 2022 by Blackhawk

[somegirl]

Listen to the other side. I know it doesn't serve the ego. But it might make things more clear to understand. 
 

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, somegirl said:

Listen to the other side. I know it doesn't serve the ego. But it might make things more clear to understand. 
 

i beat my woman

but you have to understand she was talking slick, it's mostly her fault

[Blackhawk]

4 minutes ago, somegirl said:

Listen to the other side. I know it doesn't serve the ego. But it might make things more clear to understand. 
 

You have to understand that everything that Putin and Kremlin says is a lie.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

i care

And yet you (probably) still will vote for Americans Liberal and Democrats who continue American hegemony.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Husseinisdoingfine

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Is there a real threat to Russia as a country if Ukraine joins NATO? 

Or is this silly bullshit political Psychopath games of Putin to keep his control going on forever and his paranoia over losing power?

Geo-political positioning is very complex and subtle. If all of Europe aligns against Russia this is a serious problem for Russia/Putin long-term. Putin is strategizing against that. This war is part of that strategy. You can dislike his methods, but he is strategic. We wants buffers states between himself and the American dominated West.

Don't forget, Russia lost 20 million people in WW2 because they didn't have a defensive buffer between themselves and Europe. That is still on Putin's mind.

If you think Putin is insane or irrational or stupid or evil, you're not thinking seriously. That's not what's happening. This is a subtle chess game.

Now I am not saying Putin is right on this. He is capable of making strategic mistakes. But the US portrayal of Putin is cartoonish and childish. There is no actual understanding in American media of Putin's perspective. You could say that none is needed, but that's not what our work here is about. In our work, understanding comes first, survival second.

[PurpleTree]

22 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

And yet you (probably) still will vote for Americans Liberal and Democrats who continue American hegemony.

nope i'm not an american

[BlueOak]

In reference to the above points on Europe uniting against Russia. Germany has decided to send weapons to Ukraine also, alongside others. 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 Stinger surface-to-air missiles from Germany. 25 Nations are part of the deal offering their own lethal weaponry or non lethal supplies with the UK providing logistical support in delivery as well as weapons oureslves.

Best case, this further stalls the invasion, everyone goes back to talking and Ukraine gets neutrality, Russia gets a non Nato buffer saying they won so they look powerful to their people. We avoid a protracted conflict. Failing that this allows Ukraine to continuing fight against Russia air and armor superiority with infantry, rather than being overrun by both over the years to come.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-invasion-uk-and-us-among-28-nations-which-have-agreed-to-give-more-weapons-and-military-aid-to-country-sky-news-understands-12551824

Edited February 26, 2022 by BlueOak

[pedro23]

MOLDOVAN PERSPECTIVE

I am writing these words as I am less than 90 miles from the frontline (Odessa) hearing shelling shots, and seeing the sheer pain of tens of thousands of refugees in my country  as well as seeing the sheer scale of atrocities committed by the Russian Armed Forces including striking civilian buildings - apartment buildings, kindergartens, hospitals as well as Russian tanks rolling over civilian cars WITH PEOPLE INSIDE, seeing dead children and women, and other consequences of the “Russian Peace”.  I want to KINDLY tell all those saying ”Putin was justified to act” ”Evil West/NATO is to blame” or "Go get those NAZIS in Kyev” open your eyes!  

I want to dedicate this post to the most courageous people I have ever seen. To quote them ”Русский корабль, иди нах@й!"

 

Before I proceed I want to offer my condolences to my Ukrainian brothers @hello1234 for everything they had to endure and say that you are not alone, we love you and we are making everything possible for your Ukrainians compatriots to feel at home here in Moldova. Слава україні! 

 

 There are several reasons I am writing this post: 

 

To provide a perspective of ex soviet/es socialist  Eastern European People, particularly Romanian (including Republic of Moldova)   regarding their history with Russia, and why we want to get close to NATO and the West and as far as possible from Russia.

 

To provide non-mainstream media, straight from the heat of action media sources and coverage. I am doing this after I watched Abby Martin’s stream discussing the Russian-Ukrainian war. To be honest I have never seen so much tanky-ass crap in one video.

Disclosure - I am a leftist and I do not hate Russia. Besides being ethnically Romanian, my heritage includes Russian, Greek and Hungarian roots.

Point Number 1. Russian Imperialism. Eastern Europe and Russia.

 

I will skip the 1812 annexation of Basarabia (now Moldova. by the Russian Empire) and will get straight to the year 1940. The territory of Basarabia was annexed by The USSR. What followed was 3 Waves of Deportations. 40 000 women, children and men  were deported to Siberia and all their belongings taken from them. Majority died in cattle train wagons or in the Siberian Gulag. Then followed forced conscription and  deportation to mining camps - another 80 000 people. Then organized famine - between 150 000 and 200 000 dead. All this during 5 years, 15% of the population died.   More than that  when Moldova got its independence in 1992, Russia generated ethnical tensions  and engineered a civil war in the eastern part of the country… hmm sounds familiar? What for? To prevent a possible Union with Romania and lose influence in this crucial region. Now, the territory of Moldova is occupied by Russian Tanks of the 14th Army, stationed in Transnistria. In other words we have enemy armor less than 40 miles from our capital. God I I am glad we hadn’t joined  this evil, capitalistic, blood drinking American-pig cabbal called NATO as we enjoy a lot being occupied by Russian troops and fearing an invasion everytime we get farther and farther away from Russia in terms of political alignment.Kinda hard to maintain friendly relations with a country that produced such atrocities.  The reason why I am writing this is because I want my ”very nuanced” friends (so nuanced in fact that they are so anti U.S Imperialism that they are pro Russian Imperialism) to understand that everywhere from the Danube to the Finnish Bay the consequences of Russian Imperialism were very similar to what happened in Basarabia:  1956 -The  Massacre of Budapest, conducted by Soviet Troops; 1968 - Soviet Intervention in Czechoslovakia; 1994 - The Abkhazian War; 2008 -  The Ossetian War. Everywhere from Romania to Finland there is a collective trauma, there is distrust and disregard towards Russia. That’s why NATO expanded after 1992. It expanded because the concerns fueled by the psychological wounds were still fresh. The countries that joined the alliance after 1992,did so voluntarily with overwhelming public support without being forcibly pulled by the “American Empire” and I wholeheartedly wish that my country did so. 

 

Now, having said this, I want to clarify - this is not a NATO eulogy. Yes NATO is a tool to expand the U.S sphere of influence. Yes, NATO forces were involved in hawkish actions against Libya and Syria. But, to say that NATO is only a force for U.S imperialism and should be abolished is a perspective driven by a stage Green perspective in reaction to it’s shadow. Those who adopt this perspective are ignorant to what this organization brings - security for small nations like Lithuania, Latvia, Hungary and Romania, nations that won’t be able to match up the might of a giant like Russia. I will use this allegory: Yes U.S is a bully. And NATO is an organization that is run by a bully. But so is Russia - an even brutish bully that historically only values force. So in order to contain the brutish bully you ask the less brutish one for protection. 

I will continue in my next post. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by pedro23

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, pedro23 said:

Those who adopt this perspective are ignorant to what this organization brings - security for small nations like Lithuania, Latvia, Hungary and Romania, nations that won’t be able to match up the might of a giant like Russia.

you could also say it's the e.u. that brings stability/security to those small countries

[Preety_India]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Geo-political positioning is very complex and subtle. If all of Europe aligns against Russia this is a serious problem for Russia/Putin long-term. Putin is strategizing against that. This war is part of that strategy. You can dislike his methods, but he is strategic. We wants buffers states between himself and the American dominated West.

Don't forget, Russia lost 20 million people in WW2 because they didn't have a defensive buffer between themselves and Europe. That is still on Putin's mind.

If you think Putin is insane or irrational or stupid or evil, you're not thinking seriously. That's not what's happening. This is a subtle chess game.

Now I am not saying Putin is right on this. He is capable of making strategic mistakes. But the US portrayal of Putin is cartoonish and childish. There is no actual understanding in American media of Putin's perspective. You could say that none is needed, but that's not what our work here is about. In our work, understanding comes first, survival second.

How does buffer states play a role in terms of nuclear invasion? 

When America bombed Japan (WW2), there were no buffer states. 

 

[Preety_India]

24 minutes ago, pedro23 said:

MOLDOVAN PERSPECTIVE

I am writing these words as I am less than 90 miles from the frontline (Odessa) hearing shelling shots, and seeing the sheer pain of tens of thousands of refugees in my country  as well as seeing the sheer scale of atrocities committed by the Russian Armed Forces including striking civilian buildings - apartment buildings, kindergartens, hospitals as well as Russian tanks rolling over civilian cars WITH PEOPLE INSIDE, seeing dead children and women, and other consequences of the “Russian Peace”.  I want to KINDLY tell all those saying ”Putin was justified to act” ”Evil West/NATO is to blame” or "Go get those NAZIS in Kyev” open your eyes!  

I want to dedicate this post to the most courageous people I have ever seen. To quote them ”Русский корабль, иди нах@й!"

 

Before I proceed I want to offer my condolences to my Ukrainian brothers @hello1234 for everything they had to endure and say that you are not alone, we love you and we are making everything possible for your Ukrainians compatriots to feel at home here in Moldova. Слава україні! 

 

 There are several reasons I am writing this post: 

 

To provide a perspective of ex soviet/es socialist  Eastern European People, particularly Romanian (including Republic of Moldova)   regarding their history with Russia, and why we want to get close to NATO and the West and as far as possible from Russia.

 

To provide non-mainstream media, straight from the heat of action media sources and coverage. I am doing this after I watched Abby Martin’s stream discussing the Russian-Ukrainian war. To be honest I have never seen so much tanky-ass crap in one video.

Disclosure - I am a leftist and I do not hate Russia. Besides being ethnically Romanian, my heritage includes Russian, Greek and Hungarian roots.

Point Number 1. Russian Imperialism. Eastern Europe and Russia.

 

I will skip the 1812 annexation of Basarabia (now Moldova. by the Russian Empire) and will get straight to the year 1940. The territory of Basarabia was annexed by The USSR. What followed was 3 Waves of Deportations. 40 000 women, children and men  were deported to Siberia and all their belongings taken from them. Majority died in cattle train wagons or in the Siberian Gulag. Then followed forced conscription and  deportation to mining camps - another 80 000 people. Then organized famine - between 150 000 and 200 000 dead. All this during 5 years, 15% of the population died.   More than that  when Moldova got its independence in 1992, Russia generated ethnical tensions  and engineered a civil war in the eastern part of the country… hmm sounds familiar? What for? To prevent a possible Union with Romania and lose influence in this crucial region. Now, the territory of Moldova is occupied by Russian Tanks of the 14th Army, stationed in Transnistria. In other words we have enemy armor less than 40 miles from our capital. God I I am glad we hadn’t joined  this evil, capitalistic, blood drinking American-pig cabbal called NATO as we enjoy a lot being occupied by Russian troops and fearing an invasion everytime we get farther and farther away from Russia in terms of political alignment.Kinda hard to maintain friendly relations with a country that produced such atrocities.  The reason why I am writing this is because I want my ”very nuanced” friends (so nuanced in fact that they are so anti U.S Imperialism that they are pro Russian Imperialism) to understand that everywhere from the Danube to the Finnish Bay the consequences of Russian Imperialism were very similar to what happened in Basarabia:  1956 -The  Massacre of Budapest, conducted by Soviet Troops; 1968 - Soviet Intervention in Czechoslovakia; 1994 - The Abkhazian War; 2008 -  The Ossetian War. Everywhere from Romania to Finland there is a collective trauma, there is distrust and disregard towards Russia. That’s why NATO expanded after 1992. It expanded because the concerns fueled by the psychological wounds were still fresh. The countries that joined the alliance after 1992,did so voluntarily with overwhelming public support without being forcibly pulled by the “American Empire” and I wholeheartedly wish that my country did so. 

 

Now, having said this, I want to clarify - this is not a NATO eulogy. Yes NATO is a tool to expand the U.S sphere of influence. Yes, NATO forces were involved in hawkish actions against Libya and Syria. But, to say that NATO is only a force for U.S imperialism and should be abolished is a perspective driven by a stage Green perspective in reaction to it’s shadow. Those who adopt this perspective are ignorant to what this organization brings - security for small nations like Lithuania, Latvia, Hungary and Romania, nations that won’t be able to match up the might of a giant like Russia. I will use this allegory: Yes U.S is a bully. And NATO is an organization that is run by a bully. But so is Russia - an even brutish bully that historically only values force. So in order to contain the brutish bully you ask the less brutish one for protection. 

I will continue in my next post. 

So basically Russia is the Butcher of Europe. 

 

[pedro23]

MOLDOVAN PERSPECTIVE 
Follow Up Post  

With all being said I want to clarify the NATO-UKRAINE/pretext for invasion situation.  

Would Ukraine have been a threat in the eyes of Russia if it joined NATO? Possibly. But there are several nuances to this:

1. Would Ukraine actually have joined NATO? 
The answer is probably no.  In this regard the ”threat” is based on the words of the  Ukrainian president Zelensky that basically invited himself into NATO. The problem with this is that a good proportion of NATO members were against Ukraine joining. More than that, when a country has a chance of joining the alliance it is given a more or less concrete timeline of joining. Ukraine wasn't presented one. So it's more of a speculation than a concrete fact. Even more than that NATO does not accept new members with ongoing conflicts.

2. It's a strange loop. 

Ukraine wanted to join NATO because it was realistically threatened  by Russia who annexed part of it and orchestrated a civil war in it's Eastern part. So Russia feels threatened because Ukraine wanted to join NATO because it felt threatened by Russia. 

Now, the world saw Russia's true colours. Russia committed a direct act of aggression towards Ukraine. The actions were disproportionate and more barbaric as the war goes on. Right now there is fear in Moldova as we might be the next who receive the "Russian Peace". So far I am going to volunteer in refugee camps - currently in Moldova found asylum more than 20 000 refugees with as many waiting at the border for perspective the 4th biggest city in my country has 27 000 people). But as of now I am very seriously contemplating volunteering for the Ukrainian Territorial Defence Forces. In other words take the arms and go fight, because if Ukraine falls, hello new Soviet Union. But thank God we have some nuanced members who from the comfort of their homes can provide us with much needed balanced and nuanced  perspective justifying the invasion. Thank you, your bravery will never be forgotten. @Husseinisdoingfine 

P.S  I promised some information sources. 

1. https://t.me/uniannet Very detailed coverage by ordinary people. You can witness videos of Russian Armed Forces bombing civilian areas, hospitals, kindergartens, shouting civilians etc. It is in Russian and Ukrainian. You will need to Google translate. 

2. https://mobile.twitter.com/i_army_org The Twitter of the Ukrainian Army  with regular uptades

3.https://mobile.twitter.com/euromaidanpress Euromaidan Press 

4.  https://mobile.twitter.com/Conflicts  Conflict News. You can also see that the Russians target civilians, for example this account uptaded that the Greek Prime Minister reports that 10 Greek civilians killed by Russian strikes near Mariupol. 

5. https://mobile.twitter.com/YWNReporter Moshe Schwartz. Journalist. 

6. https://mobile.twitter.com/CasusBellii Casus Belli. Military uptades and infographics. 
 

[Danioover9000]

@Preety_India

57 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

How does buffer states play a role in terms of nuclear invasion? 

When America bombed Japan (WW2), there were no buffer states. 

 

   buffer states mostly play a role in terms of both prevention of, and slowing down of invasion forces, mostly by land and sometimes by sea and air based on the strategic geographical locations. If you wanted to invade by sea, but I already have established control and defensive fortifications along a beach, then trying to establish a beach head would be more difficult. A more simpler example would be, if you and I were about to fight, but I had 2 men with me to aid me against you, and you didn't have allies, then you would expend far more energy to try and get to me, and worse, if I survived and still have energy, I still have one guy left, and you don't have to act as a buffer, then I can counter more severely versus if you have had allies or strategies defensive positions to retreat to defend.

   The whole point of an invasion is to gather more territory and resources geographically, along with expansion and other reasons. There's no such thing as a nuclear invasion, as there would be no pount in occupation of a country bombarded by nuclear strikes, not to mention nuclear radiation makes it far more difficult to re inhabit. So nuclear invasion isn't a thing.

   There were no buffer states that are land based in the Pacific war, but there were other logistical buffers like the Pacific islands that were militarized zones the Japanese then controlled that acted as buffers. The Pacific ocean and vast distance between the USA and Japan also acted as a buffer because if there were no fleet carriers,  then refueling air planes and carrying out land invasions from sea were much more difficult. The USA had to first get control of the islands before invasion of mainland Japan and even then the thought of invading traditionally into mainland Japan was very difficult as the Japanese soldiers, and all of them, were willing to fight to the death, at which point the death toll for either side would be massive, and it would have likely strained both countries in terms of economy. Fighting a protracted war would be unfavourable more for the USA than for Japan. That is, until tbe discovery of nuclear power, and successful design of a bomb then nobody knew enough about, but enough to know that such a power would and should be demoralizing against a country. And it took 2 nuclear strikes against Japan, 2, before their emperor decided to concede to surrendering to the USA.

   

 

[misterzorgy]

We can see how propaganda works. And its results. Seems nobody wants to see others perspective. In western media there are tons of videos with fakes and millions of views where Russia is agressor.  But can someone show the real history beyond this war? I'm not trying to justify Putin, but may be it's a good idea to see another perspective on situation? No one says or even knows about War on Donbass where thousands of russian people dies in last 8 years. No one tries to imagine what would be in case of russian missiles on US/Mexican borders.

 

Politicans didn't do the job to find peaceful and balanced solutions so Zelinsky speech about nuclear weapons several days before it started was the trigger.

Picture to think

 

Hope this war will ends soon..

 

[Preety_India]

6 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Preety_India

   buffer states mostly play a role in terms of both prevention of, and slowing down of invasion forces, mostly by land and sometimes by sea and air based on the strategic geographical locations. If you wanted to invade by sea, but I already have established control and defensive fortifications along a beach, then trying to establish a beach head would be more difficult. A more simpler example would be, if you and I were about to fight, but I had 2 men with me to aid me against you, and you didn't have allies, then you would expend far more energy to try and get to me, and worse, if I survived and still have energy, I still have one guy left, and you don't have to act as a buffer, then I can counter more severely versus if you have had allies or strategies defensive positions to retreat to defend.

   The whole point of an invasion is to gather more territory and resources geographically, along with expansion and other reasons. There's no such thing as a nuclear invasion, as there would be no pount in occupation of a country bombarded by nuclear strikes, not to mention nuclear radiation makes it far more difficult to re inhabit. So nuclear invasion isn't a thing.

   There were no buffer states that are land based in the Pacific war, but there were other logistical buffers like the Pacific islands that were militarized zones the Japanese then controlled that acted as buffers. The Pacific ocean and vast distance between the USA and Japan also acted as a buffer because if there were no fleet carriers,  then refueling air planes and carrying out land invasions from sea were much more difficult. The USA had to first get control of the islands before invasion of mainland Japan and even then the thought of invading traditionally into mainland Japan was very difficult as the Japanese soldiers, and all of them, were willing to fight to the death, at which point the death toll for either side would be massive, and it would have likely strained both countries in terms of economy. Fighting a protracted war would be unfavourable more for the USA than for Japan. That is, until tbe discovery of nuclear power, and successful design of a bomb then nobody knew enough about, but enough to know that such a power would and should be demoralizing against a country. And it took 2 nuclear strikes against Japan, 2, before their emperor decided to concede to surrendering to the USA.

   

 

That explanation makes sense. Thanks. Now I understand why Putin is hungry for buffer states. 

 

[Ryan_047]

2 minutes ago, misterzorgy said:

We can see how propaganda works. And its results. Seems nobody wants to see others perspective. In western media there are tons of videos with fakes and millions of views where Russia is agressor.  But can someone show the real history beyond this war? I'm not trying to justify Putin, but may be it's a good idea to see another perspective on situation? No one says or even knows about War on Donbass where thousands of russian people dies in last 8 years. No one tries to imagine what would be in case of russian missiles on US/Mexican borders.

 

Politicans didn't do the job to find peaceful and balanced solutions so Zelinsky speech about nuclear weapons several days before it started was the trigger.

Picture to think

 

Hope this war will ends soon..

 

Yes, let's ignore all the stuff Russia has done to Ukraine since the fall of the Soviet Union and blame the start of the war on Zelinsky. Putin was so mad that Zelinsky bad mouthed him that he decided to invade. *facepalm*

Yes, lots of Russians and Ukrainians died in the Donbass region, but answer me this... Who artificially created the pro-Russian Donbass separatist region? 

The only semi-valid point you make is the missiles on the border problem. 

 

[Lyubov]

I can’t help but wonder though what would the Iraq invasion would of looked like in 2022. What Russia is doing is basically the same. Not right. But it is fucked up how a stronger country with more influence can get away with it unscathed while a weaker country has its entire innocent civilians punished with sanctions and their entire economy ruined. 

[Ryan_047]

5 minutes ago, misterzorgy said:

may I say that US made revolution in Ukraine to brainwash Ukranian people to rise up against Russians? Or may be Donbass people want to live independently from Ukraine? 

This is proof right here that you haven't actually studied what happened in Ukraine post 2014 and before Crimea was annexed, and talk about this subject without proper context and knowledge. Parroting Russian propaganda is not understanding the Russian point of view or being relative. 

Read my recent replies regarding this subject in the threads created, and you'll see what I think of this conflict. If you find any errors in the cold facts and opinions that I've stated, please quote me and let's have a chat. I don't want to repeat myself again and again. 

[Luca001]

@pedro23 thank you