Request to Leo, to make blog post/video about Putin behavior in Ukraine.

[Breakingthewall]

40 minutes ago, Ryan_047 said:

Could you please expand on what is rash and stupid about what the Ukrainian leadership has done? 

zelenski is a kind of retarded idiot who until two days ago was a comedy actor and made a program in which he appeared with two Uzis shooting to corrupt politicians. an incompetent narcissist who with his statements and actions has provoked this conflict.

ukraine has been independent for 8 years and it seemed that russia was going to swallow its pride, but this clown wanted to play the little napoleon with incendiary statements and gestures that russia cannot tolerate without giving up all its pride. playing the game of the us, eager to sell weapons and look for an enemy to unite its population, now that the islamists don't even scare children. biden from the beginning used hostile rhetoric against putin, very interested in having an enemy, but that the blows are given to others as always.

it is the problem of democracy, that circus clowns like trump and zelensky can come to power. It's time to pay for blindness and incompetence .

  if you only want to see your point of view, without nuances, without trying to understand the Russian point of view without demonizing it, I don't know why speak it

 

[Alex_R]

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

zelenski is a kind of retarded idiot who until two days ago was a comedy actor and made a program in which he appeared with two Uzis shooting to corrupt politicians. an incompetent narcissist who with his statements and actions has provoked this conflict.

ukraine has been independent for 8 years and it seemed that russia was going to swallow its pride, but this clown wanted to play the little napoleon with incendiary statements and gestures that russia cannot tolerate without giving up all its pride. playing the game of the us, eager to sell weapons and look for an enemy to unite its population, now that the islamists don't even scare children. biden from the beginning used hostile rhetoric against putin, very interested in having an enemy, but that the blows are given to others as always.

it is the problem of democracy, that circus clowns like trump and zelensky can come to power. It's time to pay for blindness and incompetence .

  if you only want to see your point of view, without nuances, without trying to understand the Russian point of view without demonizing it, I don't know why speak it

 

 

I agree 100% with this, sadly majority of population seems to support the populist clowns who are crazy enough to drag all the country to a massacre for just a little more attention . I'm sure that after this Zelensky will flee to a nice rich first world european country and still "fighting the Russians" super super comfy via twitter.

 

Diplomacy? no, thanks. I want more followers.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Alex_R

[Porphyry Fedotov]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I just don't see how Russia can occupy Ukraine long-term. It's not going to work. So what is the point of all this? It's just going to piss the whole world off against Putin and it will cost many lives, with no real gain.

He isn't going to occupy Ukraine. I think he will dismantle Ukrainian democracy and get rid of its political elites. Ukraine is going to be another Russian client state just like Belarus or Kazakhstan. I feel sad and sorry for them, since Ukraine was a real democracy, not without flaws, but still, and it's a big deal for a post-USSR country.

[Ryan_047]

32 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

if you only want to see your point of view, without nuances, without trying to understand the Russian point of view without demonizing it, I don't know why speak it

22 minutes ago, Alex_R said:

I agree 100% with this, sadly majority of population seems to support the populist clowns who are crazy enough to drag all the country to a massacre for just a little more attention . I'm sure that after this Zelensky will flee to a nice rich first world european country and still "fighting the Russians" super super comfy via twitter.

Hahaha, that's funny. Parroting Russian propaganda is not understanding the Russian point of view by any stretch of the imagination.@Breakingthewall you also haven't responded concretely to any of my arguments as to prove why they're wrong. Please do so.

Be it Zelinsky or any other Ukrainian leader, they are forced to integrate with EU. Take a look at the Maidan protests. Do you really think that post Crimea annexation would the majority of the population accept a non Western leaning leader?  

Edit: My take on the Russian pov is in my previous reply to Leo. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Ryan_047

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Ryan_047 said:

 

This is the president....i think that's how disasters happen

 

[Roy]

1 hour ago, DanTheLurker said:

Can you please elaborate, Leo? Why would he not be able to occupy it long-term?

Occupying nations hasn't been possible nor desirable for anyone since WW2, it's not really worth the investment. It can only happen in a total war scenario.

The US has had the most powerful military by orders of magnitude for 75 years, and even with a fraction of their power haven't been able to successfully occupy 3rd world goat herders with AK-47s lol.

Total war is no longer a possibility for humans, the only outcome is the apocalypse. There would never be a gentleman's agreement not to use nukes either, because there are no rules in war. The only "rules" that exist are from those with enough violence and power to make them up and enforce them.

[Breakingthewall]

I'm not saying it's Ukraine's fault, if it seems that way I apologize to any Ukrainian who read this. I think I don't understand enough to give an opinion so emphatically believing I'm soooo smart. it's just stupid pub discussion. apologies and I return to the spirituality forum, politics is for those who are more interested 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Breakingthewall https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/t19pmm/ukraines_president_zelensky_is_still_in_kyiv_and/

This is Zelenky right now. Not sitting in a bunker, not fleeing the country, but standing in the middle of Kyiv supporting his people's morale. It's funny how a person on a self-improvement forum literally doesn't believe in a persons ability to grow, change, and mature.

And btw, becoming the most well-known and popular comedian/actor of your country is one hell of a difficult achievement. So I don't understand why it should be seen as something embarassing. I am glad that a president of my country is an ex-comedian and not an ex-kgb officer/dictator.

 

You are right man, i have let myself be carried away by prejudices and by opinions elaborated in a day. Totally stupid an arrogant. Yesterday i didn't know who is zelenski, insulting him without knowing is stupid. Ashamed once more for my emphasis. I apologize

Edited February 25, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Alex_R]

I think it was fully possible to re-conciliate the euromaidan vision for a more western country with good currency/free market economy while dont piss off Putin ass by joining the NATO at the same time, this is what an intelligent-non populist leader needs to do.

[dafels]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Putin's invasion is wrong, relatively speaking.

I am not taking a neutral position. I am just trying to get you to see his perspective. Seeing his perspective does not make invading Ukraine a good move. It's probably not even a good move for Putin. I think he is overreaching on this one, and yes, Ukraine deserves assistance.

With this move Putin has made himself into the bad guy. If he hadn't made this move his position would have been much more understandable and defensible.

I did underestimate his willingness to invade. I thought he would be wiser than that. I don't think this invasion will achieve a better situation for Russia or even Putin. I just don't see how Russia can occupy Ukraine long-term. It's not going to work. So what is the point of all this? It's just going to piss the whole world off against Putin and it will cost many lives, with no real gain.

War in ukraine was going for over 8 years and from Putin's position it is just a few weeks/days to just stop a war in Ukraine instead of having a war for the next 5-10years. Zelensky literally told russians in ukraine to go back to russia when they know that russians make a huge portion of the Ukraine population. And they have made a lot of anti-russian laws over the years  which hurt a huge part of Ukraine population since the coup.

 

Ukraine and multiple other major european countries signed a deal with Russia to resolve this issue, but guess who didn't abide by the deal that would make this war impossible.

 

Ukraine is a chess piece for the west. I think this war is mostly west's fault than the russia's.

 

West sanctions is just a materialistic punishment when Russians don't care as much about materialism the way the west does.

Edited February 25, 2022 by dafels

[How to be wise]

Welcome to the Cold War, again.

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Ryan_047 said:

That's a naïve position. If that was the case, why does living in Ukraine sucks? 

His purpose is not annexing Ukraine, his purpose is to permanently keep Ukraine out of integrating with the EU and NATO. If he hadn't intervened militarily now, Ukraine would have been harder and harder to conquer due to its increased military spending and would have continued the integration process with the EU. Once Ukraine would have joined EU (mind you, not necessarily NATO) it would have been over for Russia. There would have been nothing Putin could have done anymore, or at the very least, his economic blackmail would have little effect. One of his biggest fears is a democratic well functioning and prosperous Ukraine. Why? Since Russia and Ukraine are so culturally close, Russians would start questions why the fascist oligarchy that they're living in can't produce the same result that Ukraine in the EU can. That would be the beginning of the end not only for Putin, but for his entire club of fascist friends.

But I think this move will get Ukraine to join NATO faster and gain more Western alignment.

3 hours ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

He isn't going to occupy Ukraine. I think he will dismantle Ukrainian democracy and get rid of its political elites. Ukraine is going to be another Russian client state just like Belarus or Kazakhstan. I feel sad and sorry for them, since Ukraine was a real democracy, not without flaws, but still, and it's a big deal for a post-USSR country.

But I don't think that will work. He will try to install a puppet government but it will be overthrown I think.

I just don't see Putin succeeding is separating Ukraine from the West.

[How to be wise]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But I think this move will get Ukraine to join NATO faster and gain more Western alignment.

But I don't think that will work. He will try to install a puppet government but it will be overthrown I think.

I just don't see Putin succeeding is separating Ukraine from the West.

It won’t be overthrown if Russia keeps a permanent military presence in Ukraine, which is what many experts believe will be the case.

[Arcangelo]

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

This is the president....i think that's how disasters happen

 

Fingers on the triggers.

No bueno.

[Fleetinglife]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

20 hours ago, Fleetinglife said:

@Carl-Richard

 

Can't get rid of this for some reason on my mobile version of this forum so I will have to post it, sorry in advance for unnecessarily spamming the thread with this. 

[Fleetinglife]

47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I just don't see Putin succeeding is separating Ukraine from the West.

I've heard ideas circulating that they might try to attempt federalize or confederalize the whole country in order to somehow integrate the Donetsk and Luhansk in order to get away of the foundational UN principle territorial integrity and sovereignty harming problem and international recognition aspect in the long term after their attempt of an equivalent of an "regime change operation" and change the flag and policy of Ukranization and Ukranian citizen building to acknowledge the 20% of the Russian speaking minority and force a change of a flag to include that historical ties and historical connections to the Russians and the Russian speaking language. Here were some of the examples of unconfirmed  speculation online regarding the change of the flag and even perhaps the countries full name:

"Federal Republic of Ukraine" (First flag in order) 

"People's Republic of Ukraine" (Second flag in order) 

and ongoing flags going around accommodating and circulating regarding that constituional and official country name change: 

(the white added is said to serve to symbolise the Russian and Slavic historical and cultural ties (with classic Panslavic tricolors symbols of the 19th century) to Ukraine and the Ukraine region and the Russian nationality and language there and the multiethnicity, multinationality present in the country - these are some of the speculations I see going on) 

Important note: None of this is yet official as the official plans of the RF going forward with the attempt and aim of what kind of regime change plan they have and still want to aim and achieve within the country. 

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Fleetinglife

[Leo Gura]

44 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

It won’t be overthrown if Russia keeps a permanent military presence in Ukraine, which is what many experts believe will be the case.

But that's like occupation. I don't see that working.

This would be worse then Iraq.

[BlueOak]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But that's like occupation. I don't see that working.

This would be worse then Iraq.

Yes to an extent. If any imposed government could even stand after this and the worldwide pressure. Their next revolution, would never start peacefully given the history like the last, only by continued civil unrest.

Its a bigger country, better terrain for resistance fighters not just a desert, lots of countries willing to ship arms there with longer borders for entry. A more resistant population even from the start, Iraq had some element of the military for example that welcomed the invaders, until foolish decisions were made to stand them all down.

I was going to say Ukraine has less radicalisation which is true but not less potential resistance fighters. They've opened up their weapon stockpiles to anyone and others outside of Ukraine are still willing to arm them. A few from other countries have gone to join them already and its just days in.

Then you add the element of the population calling NATO weak in its response, and they have incentive to show strength and keep arming resistance, showing a response and increasing border security. The predictable rise of the right.

I saw the UK defense secretary in an interview say the UK would continue to arm Ukraine. To be honest I would never say this about Syria, Iraq, Lybia or the others wars I have lived through but this felt like an attack on Europe and so I want them to get whatever weapons will help defend it. There is popular support for that right now over here, with all major political parties working together and no political point scoring off each other which is a rare unity for UK politics and popular will.

*I think the EU is also sending further anti air weaponry as well.

Edited February 25, 2022 by BlueOak

[Fleetinglife]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This would be worse then Iraq.

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This would be worse then Iraq.

On 25/02/2022 at 2:38 AM, Fleetinglife said:

@Carl-Richard

 

Again with the same problem on mobile device, sorry for that and the needless spam. 

[Fleetinglife]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This would be worse then Iraq.

The only difference now currently being is that the Americans and the Coalition actually succeded, in their regime change goal and op and somewhat future idea and vision for Iraq ultimately what they wanted with in the first place since the late 1980s and 1990s though they were willing to pay a heavy price and risks in blood and treasure for it in their population and the Iraqi one and of course the way to service their external government debt and deficit. 

Russia is actually now trying to learn exactly from that and try to implement it from America's playbook regarding Ukraine, and the reason why Putin slightly hinted, in the wake of the world seeing and info leaking via Wikileaks regarding the Iraq experience, at Bush during one of peaks of the Iraq war in 2008 before the major withdrawals in 2011 and the Bucharest Summit in 2008 about Ukraine's status to Russia as well in geopolitics and it's political course and direction of its culture that they aimed to steer it at close to Russia, we can say, dare to guess or speculate on some grounds based on the way this invasion is being carried that the invasion plans as a preemptive were probably drafted back then, at the announcement in the Bucharest Summit, even during open pro-Russia collaborative  politicians in Ukraine's mandates. 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Fleetinglife