Request to Leo, to make blog post/video about Putin behavior in Ukraine.

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

So, do you think NATO is never going to stop their expansion?

nato has shown to be capable of destroying and invading countries, libya and iraq, for energy interests. 8 years ago, russia has seen the begging of the expansion of nato on its borders, specifically in a historically russian country, with a large percentage of the pro-russian population. Russia is a country that depends on the export of its energy resources. Would you like to have the murderous thug and thief as a neighbor and married to your sister? it's hard to live with it. I condemn any invasion and violence, but here the only culprit is not Russia

[JTL]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

1) I don't buy that. Formal is too technical of a standard. A nation's security cannot be subject to formalities. The US exploited Russia pretty bad after the USSR fell in the 90's. Putin is still pissed about those injustices.

@Leo Gura I find your overall take on this very interesting, compared to other opinons I've seen. I usually listen to vaush but I feel he is abit whiney and not very commendable when it comes to this situation. How did the US exploite Russia in the 90s? when it comes to economics/financially.

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

So, do you think NATO is never going to stop their expansion?

Certainly not now.

9 minutes ago, JTL said:

@Leo Gura I find your overall take on this very interesting, compared to other opinons I've seen. I usually listen to vaush but I feel he is abit whiney and not very commendable when it comes to this situation. How did the US exploite Russia in the 90s? when it comes to economics/financially.

You can read about it in a book called The Shock Doctrine. It is a form of disaster capitalism. Basically in 1991 after the USSR collapsed, US capitalists plundered and raped as much of Russia financially as they could get away with. And they got away with a lot before Putin took power in 1998.

The fundamental problem is this: if Russia is weak, US capitalist interests will rape it. Putin understands this very well so he acts tough to compensate. Precisely since Russia is weak it needs to act tough.

[Ryan_047]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And although those countries were not forced, they probably were bribed and politically influenced. This is a subtle chess game.

Yes and no. The main reason to join NATO was an EXTREMELY strong anti Russian sentiment present in each of the current NATO's border countries. You can't make that up or bribe your way into it. Their desire to join NATO and EU in order to get rid of Russia was and still remains genuine.  The political games that you are talking about were only about speeding the process of integrating with the West, not the decisive factor. 

Also a genuine question that might clear up some stuff thrown at you in this forum... Do you believe that the actions Putin's Russia is taking geopolitically coincide with the needs and wants of the average Russian people? I'm not talking specifically about its  aggression towards Ukraine, but about everything Russia has done since the fall of the Soviet Union. 

From my point of view the Russian people don't want to be ruled by a fascist oligarchy and don't care about bullying other countries. Yeah, I get that Russia is very very corrupt, and that it takes brutality to rule over such an environment, but can we really say that Putin's (or anyone who might have been in his place) actions are justified and needed when considering that most likely the average folk doesn't wish for such things?  

 

[dafels]

The west invaded iraq with a pretext of "weapons of mass destruction" that turned out to be a lie and later turned all of the middle east into living hell that tens of millions of people still experience today. 

The west invaded lybia and turn it into hell too.

No sanctions and all of these invasions were "justice"

 

Russia invades a neighbouring country which literally had been turned into a western puppet state by a western coup when russians and ukrainians were living well together until the coup and they now do their best to turn it into hating Russia through bribery and huge levels of corruption.

 

I don't justify anyone invading, but the hipocricy between the west and russia is huge and the world needs to get rid of the unipolar world where one side gets all the saying what is "good" or not.

[Breakingthewall]

Russia only has one ace to prevent the thug from sodomizing her and depriving her of her identity to steal her: her military power (Russia is also a thug sodomizer btw). Russia has decided to say: bully, look, if you come, we are ready for anything here. who has more to lose? a risky move. the war would be over soon. who is so stupid to fight without victory options? and the precarious balance will remain balanced, and precarious

Edited February 25, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Ryan_047 said:

Do you believe that the actions Putin's Russia is taking geopolitically coincide with the needs and wants of the average Russian people? I'm not talking specifically about its  aggression towards Ukraine, but about everything Russia has done since the fall of the Soviet Union.

From my point of view the Russian people don't want to be ruled by a fascist oligarchy and don't care about bullying other countries.

I actually feel that Putin is a great leader FOR RUSSIANS. Not from the POV of the West. But for Russia he's a good leader because he is strong and gets shit done, which is what Russians generally need. Yes, he can be brutal, but Russia is a brutal place so it fits. I think Russians benefit overall from his leadership. You have to appreciate that someone far worse and less competent than Putin could be in command. Putin's job is to make sure Russia doesn't get raped geo-politically by much more economically powerful nations. He is doing a good job of that even though you might not like his methods.

You have to appreciate how fucking difficult it is to run a place like Russia. It boggles my mind just thinking about it. I can barely run this damn forum.

And look, average Americans don't care about maintaining America's global empire of military bases. But that's because they don't understand what the empire accomplishes. Average people are idiots. They don't have a clue what it takes to secure success for a country. So going by the view of average Russians doesn't say much. Average Russians could not lead Russia to success. It takes a strategic genius with balls of steel to do it.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

@Leo Gura I am absolutely in love with your multi perspectival, and non demonizing perspective on this.

Much better than Vaush, who I feel is too narrow minded and juvenile, even those who are more sympathetic to Russia are too juvenile.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Husseinisdoingfine

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I actually feel that Putin is a great leader FOR RUSSIANS. Not from the POV of the West. But for Russia he's a good leader because he is strong and gets shit done, which is what Russians generally need. Yes, he can be brutal, but Russia is a brutal place so it fits. I think Russians benefit overall from his leadership. You have to appreciate that someone far worse and less competent than Putin could be in command. Putin's job is to make sure Russia doesn't get raped geo-politically by much more economically powerful nations. He is doing a good job of that even though you might not like his methods.

You have to appreciate how fucking difficult it is to run a place like Russia. It boggles my mind just thinking about it. I can barely run this damn forum.

But now the economy of Russia is going to suffer greatly as a consequence of his invasion. 

Additionally, many parts of the world including the rest of Europe, US, other western countries, China, etc. now are going to be upset with Russia not just for its geopolitical threats but also because how much Putin now has significantly undermined the world economy.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Hardkill

[Husseinisdoingfine]

[Leo Gura]

36 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

But now the economy of Russia is going to suffer greatly as a consequence of his invasion. 

Additionally, many parts of the world including the rest of Europe, US, other western countries, China, etc. now are going to be upset with Russia not just for it geopolitical threats but also because how much Putin now has significantly undermined the world economy.

Well, this might be his first big mistake. It's a rather big gamble. Let's see how it plays out for Russia long term. Probably not good for them.

[Vrubel]

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I actually feel that Putin is a great leader FOR RUSSIANS. Not from the POV of the West. But for Russia he's a good leader because he is strong and gets shit done, which is what Russians generally need. Yes, he can be brutal, but Russia is a brutal place so it fits. I think Russians benefit overall from his leadership. You have to appreciate that someone far worse and less competent than Putin could be in command. Putin's job is to make sure Russia doesn't get raped geo-politically by much more economically powerful nations. He is doing a good job of that even though you might not like his methods.

You have to appreciate how fucking difficult it is to run a place like Russia. It boggles my mind just thinking about it. I can barely run this damn forum.

And look, average Americans don't care about maintaining America's global empire of military bases. But that's because they don't understand what the empire accomplishes. Average people are idiots. They don't have a clue what it takes to secure success for a country. So going by the view of average Russians doesn't say much. Average Russians could not lead Russia to success. It takes a strategic genius with balls of steel to do it.

Can't you extend the same compassion and understanding to Ukraine and the west? 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Can't you extend the same compassion and understanding to Ukraine and the west? 

Sure, but that perspective is obvious and over represented.

I am half Ukrainian.

[Husseinisdoingfine]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

I am half Ukrainian.

I'm half Lebanese, on my fathers side, Russian on my Mom's

[Vrubel]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Sure, but that perspective is obvious and over represented.

I am half Ukrainian.

Not so, especially with (radical) stage green people

My father is from the Ukraine, mother from Moscow

It boggles my mind that Ukrainians and Russians fight despite having such a shared history

Edited February 24, 2022 by Vrubel

[BlueOak]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Sure, but that perspective is obvious and over represented.

I am half Ukrainian.

That must be tough at the moment. How does a detailed perspective on both sides of something not get overly influenced by your emotional reaction? The more detail I go into the more emotional bias I tend to see in something. The less I speak or expand the more balanced a response I seem to have.

[PurpleTree]

8 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

 

It boggles my mind that Ukrainians and Russians fight despite having such a shared history

why does it boggle your mind, aren't fights often between people with "shared histories"? 

[Vrubel]

@PurpleTree Generally there is no real hate amongst the people. They are friends, intermarry etc. When I was in Ukraine I was actually surprised by how chill and "nontribal" the people were. They were more bothered by their own corruption than by Russian harassment. That's why they overwhelmingly elected Zelensky. ...But now this invasion will bring nothing good for all sides involved. 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Vrubel

[PurpleTree]

^^ of course

i'm actually really disappointed by putin/russia and the invasion/attack

i was defending russia a bit and understood russia's fears somewhat

didn't have a problem with russian gas

wanted them to integrate more with western europe

wanted to visit russia actually

and now i don't

[Danioover9000]

@Vynce  I think in the long term, the situation will resolve itself, and a compromise would be agreed upon from sides involved in this situation. In the short term, because of people's attachment to their value systems they gained from their culture upbringing, their cognition, moral system, states especially related to fear and insecurity, as well as life experiences so far, this would be a topic that triggers the most, for those here who are from Russia, Ukraine, other neighboring European countries and the USA.

   I don't think this is the ideal time to be having this discussion without risking warnings and a ban as it's pretty easy to demonize, sometimes in a subtle way.