God and Enlightenment -- Why it isn't true to say God exists, or God does not exist.

[Girzo]

56 minutes ago, kray said:

But don't some philosophies such as Buddhism preach that ultimate truth is no-self?

Yeah, it's weird to follow Leo's work sometimes.

In my experience, a no-self awakening (I mean a single experience, not a permanent shift) has been way more important and way stronger than any God experience I have got from DMT or DPT. But there's still some world left after you reach the No-self, I guess that what is left is The Self.

Maybe the difference comes from the fact that I have spent hours in the No-self state and the DMT peak experience lasts like 3 minutes only.

[Joel3102]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

His point is wrong.

You are the Self, you are God.

Drop this no-self talk. It is the wrong emphasis and direction. Higher awakening is all about You as Self.

 

What’s wrong with no self teachings? It’s traditionally the most important aspect of enlightenment. Obviously when they teach no self, they mean no human, personal “self”, not no ultimate Self. You can’t get to realising you’re God without realising your identification with your personal self is bullshit. It’s extremely liberating to live free from identifying with the small s self

[The Lucid Dreamer]

22 hours ago, Joel3102 said:

What’s wrong with no self teachings? It’s traditionally the most important aspect of enlightenment. Obviously when they teach no self, they mean no human, personal “self”, not no ultimate Self. You can’t get to realising you’re God without realising your identification with your personal self is bullshit. It’s extremely liberating to live free from identifying with the small s self

Well, Leo is trying to point you toward the absolute HIGHEST realization that he knows possible.  The realization of no self is beginner level awakening, where it hits you that you are not the little ego self you thought you were and that that was always a mere conceptual construction.  After you find out what you are not, you then go on to figure out what you actually are, which is pure Self with a capital S.  Kind of ironic, I know. 

Edited February 24, 2022 by The Lucid Dreamer

[Inliytened1]

4 hours ago, Joel3102 said:

What’s wrong with no self teachings? It’s traditionally the most important aspect of enlightenment. 

The highest Truth gets perverted or lost because a false neo adveita guru will take no self and then use that  to say no Self or also denounce Self.  They mistakenly combine no self with no Self..thus steering someone away from ever realizing their true nature.  Theres no god because theres no you to think there is a God..This is mostly because they weren't enlightened in the first place.  If they were enlightened they would be God realized.  The self would have dropped and they would realize Self.

[BipolarGrowth]

18 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

The highest Truth gets perverted or lost because a false neo adveita guru will take no self and then use that  to say no Self or also denounce Self.  They mistakenly combine no self with no Self..thus steering someone away from ever realizing their true nature.  Theres no god because theres no you to think there is a God..This is mostly because they weren't enlightened in the first place.  If they were enlightened they would be God realized.  The self would have dropped and they would realize Self.

I agree with this. 
 

No self and Self done right are just pointing to the same thing. Done wrong, they are seem to be in some sort of competition. 

[VeganAwake]

When it's clearly recognized that ME is an illusion, there isn't anyone left with an agenda to go on attempting to realize its true nature.

It's clearly seen that the very entity that attempts to GO ON & ON & ON is totally unreal.

That's why liberation is referred to as "the end of seeking"

If there is still any attempt whatsoever to identify as THIS or THAT then the illusion was not clearly seen through.

This apparent situation is often referred to as SPIRITUAL EGO or SUPER EGO. 

It's a very sneaky last ditch effort of the ego/sense of self to preserve its illusory existence.

Some clever illusion huh ? 

 

❤ 

[Mahyar]

I am so confused, 

I wish @Leo Gura could say something about this...

I am finding it really difficult to marry these 2 views:

1. There is a God, a supreme being that is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent, that is the creator of all, Angels and demons and deities and all these entities, Spirits, Life, Death, Time and eternity, and that there is a human which we are (supposedly) that can interact with these entities on different levels, maybe in some form of physical manifestation or an intuitive insight or whatever
2. You are God, The Self, and dreaming this all up forever...

Reflecting on both views, when I think about each of them separately, they both make absolute sense, but when I want to put them together, they seem so contradictory.

[Leo Gura]

On 2/23/2022 at 0:02 PM, kray said:

But don't some philosophies such as Buddhism preach that ultimate truth is no-self? I know that Advaitha Vendantha preaches true self.

Buddhism is not properly understood. Buddhism actually teaches Self.

9 hours ago, Mahyar said:

I am so confused, 

I wish @Leo Gura could say something about this...

I am finding it really difficult to marry these 2 views:

1. There is a God, a supreme being that is Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent, that is the creator of all, Angels and demons and deities and all these entities, Spirits, Life, Death, Time and eternity, and that there is a human which we are (supposedly) that can interact with these entities on different levels, maybe in some form of physical manifestation or an intuitive insight or whatever
2. You are God, The Self, and dreaming this all up forever...

Reflecting on both views, when I think about each of them separately, they both make absolute sense, but when I want to put them together, they seem so contradictory.

God an infinite mind that dreams forever. And you are that mind dreaming being a human.

[Mason Riggle]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And you are that mind dreaming being a human.

I am this, but as this, I don't 'do' anything other than 'be this'.  'The Self', what I am, doesn't 'do anything'.. it just 'is something'.  

The Self just IS itself.. not the cause of itself. 

I am not causing myself to be how I am being.. I just 'am being how I am being.' 

Any attempt to be other than how I am being, is just more 'how I am already being without ever trying to be that'.