Is Nahm banned? Or just demoted?

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Gesundheit2 said:

You should have talked to Nahm in private first when you were having the problems. All of this ranting is unnecessary.

Yeah I guess at some point I will have to. I feared being gaslit about my experience like I have in the past, so in public everything is exposed and you can't hide.

1 minute ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Well, there you have it. That's the belief that's created this problem for you, and will keep creating more of the same problem if you don't investigate its truth and then change it.

It's not about the belief. It's about the harmony of the person and the teaching. 

The reason I can shift from hatred and anger to more calm and equanimity so quickly is because of quality guidance and grace from others, not from using the mind to attack and pick apart the mind.

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Kksd74628 I think we should speak about Nahm until we get closure and resolution. Burying the conversation is not going to help anyone.

What would give you closure at this point?  I think you need to address this with him face to face.  Talking to us about it isn't going to give you closure.  Otherwise how long do you need to let it out until you feel better ? A week? Or month?  Or would dealing with nahm directly and getting closure with him directly allow you to move on?

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

What would give you closure at this point?  I think you need to address this with him face to face.  Talking to us about it isn't going to give you closure.  Otherwise how long do you need to let it out until you feel better ? A week? Or month?  Or would dealing with nahm directly and getting closure with hum directly allow you to move on?

I don't have a desire to speak to him 1-1, because I don't think it would solve anything.

But maybe an open thread, where we can go over the harm and the flaw.

But I don't know, my perspective has calmed and I can see how hatred and making Nahm an enemy is not harmonious, but at the same time I do believe a lot of this needed to be said.

I think my posts will be better, so maybe this can get resolved more effortlessly now

[Gesundheit2]

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

It's not about the belief. It's about the harmony of the person and the teaching. 

That's nonsense. Who determines that? To an ISIS bomber, the radical fundamentalist teachings are the most harmonious thing in existence.

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

The reason I can shift from hatred and anger to more calm and equanimity so quickly is because of quality guidance and grace from others, not from using the mind to attack and pick apart the mind.

You don't know that. Keep in mind that you still have hours of Nahm's communications in your mind, so it's very possible that they're only taking effect right now. You can't really say he didn't teach you anything, because maybe he laid out the groundwork for the rest of what you have learned. Maybe without Nahm, you would have never been able to move beyond that point you were at before. Maybe he planted the seeds for you and you didn't know.

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Trickyp said:

Nahm shall pay back the 10k, problem solved.

 

I don't even want the money, I should probably stop emphasizing that I only used it show people that there was something not right about his approach.

I want Nahm to admit wrongdoing and make some step to either stop teaching or find a real teacher and receive genuine guidance so he can help people, without doing harm.

 

[Kksd74628]

@Raptorsin7

You should watch Leo's video of Everyone Acts From Good Intentions

Maybe you didn't resonate with Nahm's teachings, but that is not logic to attack teacher imo. There are many teachers and with some you just can't make good progress and that is not your or teachers fault. Nahm didn't purposely want that which happened so ranting about him and calling him charlatan is just projecting your own negative feelings here so please stop that, thanks.

@Inliytened1

Thank you, because you see the same thing that I try to point here. My honest opinion is that this conversation is over and there shouldn't be any talking about Nahm without Nahm first coming here to defend himself, because otherwise it is too easy just to rant about someone. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Kksd74628

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I don't even want the money, I should probably stop emphasizing that I only used it show people that there was something not right about his approach.

I want Nahm to admit wrongdoing and make some step to either stop teaching or find a real teacher and receive genuine guidance so he can help people, without doing harm.

 

@TrickypYes it seems to be the emotional damage.  Paying back the money now can't fix that.  

Ultimately @Raptorsin7 needs to find this closure within himself.  And be at peace with himself over it.

[roopepa]

22 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Some people are approaching this conversation with the intent to shout me down because the thought of Nahm not being who they thought he was is so painful. 

Who are the people shouting you down and gaslighting? Which users? Can you quote the posts and paste links where this has happened, so everyone, along with mods, can see it and make their assessment so that we could have closure.

By the way, I understand why you feel the need to make your voice heard, as I had very similar experience as you do, but with Leo. I understand the frustration and anger you feel.

What comes to the money you paid for Nahm's sessions, I think it would be reasonable and justified for you to ask your money back, as you clearly feel dissappointed and scammed. Have you asked for refund?

And just for the sake of clarity, do you want to make one more post explaining one by one each thing you think Nahm did wrong? As in, each lie you think he told, each charlatan move, each scam... etc. And would you like to tell how you felt before, during and after you worked with him? You can make your own thread for it if you like.

[Raptorsin7]

2 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

That's nonsense. Who determines that? To an ISIS bomber, the radical fundamentalist teachings are the most harmonious thing in existence.

You don't know that. Keep in mind that you still have hours of Nahm's communications in your mind, so it's very possible that they're only taking effect right now. You can't really say he didn't teach you anything, because maybe he laid out the groundwork for the rest of what you have learned. Maybe without Nahm, you would have never been able to move beyond that point you were at before. Maybe he planted the seeds for you and you didn't know.

I can trace my progress to different teachings and teachers. True teachers will have an energy and grace to them, and it will flow to you. 

Nahm is not pure evil, so i'm sure he did some good things, but I think the fact that I ended up suicidal after having spent so much time with him is evidence of something disharmonious about his approach. Maybe he is good for somethings and some people, but genuine spiritual understand and living in harmony I don't think he is credible. But he acts and presents himself like he is a true saint, that is my biggest gripe. 

3 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

Maybe you didn't resonate with Nahm's teachings, but that is not logic to attack teacher imo. There are many teachers and with some you just can't make good progress and that is not your or teachers fault. Nahm didn't purposely want that which happened so ranting about him and calling him charlatan is just projecting your own neghative feelings here so please stop that, thanks.

I agree I shouldn't attack Nahm, but I don't think this discussion should be stopped. Nahm is not banned from the forum, Leo just said he has to change his approach, so he can come in and respond to the criticism. 

I think my fundamental point is that Nahm is doing harm to some people, and I want to show the community what happened and how this works.

 

[Gregory1]

@Raptorsin7 please shut up and stop calling Nahm a "sharlatan"

[Gesundheit2]

10 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I can trace my progress to different teachings and teachers. True teachers will have an energy and grace to them, and it will flow to you. 

Nahm is not pure evil, so i'm sure he did some good things, but I think the fact that I ended up suicidal after having spent so much time with him is evidence of something disharmonious about his approach. Maybe he is good for somethings and some people, but genuine spiritual understand and living in harmony I don't think he is credible. But he acts and presents himself like he is a true saint, that is my biggest gripe.

You're conflating two things here:

1. Your frustration with the results you think you've got from working with Nahm.
2. Your perception of him as a person.

It might help you to separate these things before continuing, because one can affect the other.

It might be true that you didn't have the results you wanted from him, but it's also true that most other people have experienced the opposite. So we can't accept your perception/judgment on his person because the evidence is so overwhelmingly to the opposite effect. I don't know if it's okay, but a poll can definitely demonstrate this point.

I perceive him as a legit spiritual teacher. Many share the same perception. But just like with everything else, the perfect product that pleases everyone does not exist. Otherwise, everyone will just buy it and all problems will end.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Kksd74628]

@Raptorsin7

You should also watch Leo's video of The Power Of Letting Go

You should understand that this is not about Nahm, but you. It's you that needs to accept that which happened or/and to talk to Nahm personally. As many people have said they have got lot of good about Nahm and if what he said made harm it most likely made some good. Your intention to stop Nahm from teaching or to tell people to stop listening Nahm is personal attack against Nahm and his brand and that is something which is illegal to do, because if we would ask Nahm he would most likely to say that yeah I am sorry from that which happened and I only want good for everyone and if that which I did made someone hurt then again I am sorry.

So that you name Nahm as charlatan is just you trying to feel better when you were hurt. Accept that you are hurt and see that no amount of attacking Nahm will fix you. You are one of the types of people who feel better when the one who hurted you gets punishment, but that's actually very egoistical and unhealthy and actually very vomiting. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Kksd74628

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Kksd74628 said:

You should understand that this is not about Nahm, but you. It's you that needs to accept that which happened or/and to talk to Nahm personally. As many people have said they have got lot of good about Nahm and if what he said made harm it most likely made some good. Your intention to stop Nahm from teaching or to tell people to stop listening Nahm is personal attack against Nahm and his brand and that is something which is illegal to do, because if we would ask Nahm he would most likely to say that yeah I am sorry from that which happened and I only want good for everyone and if that which I did made someone hurt then again I am sorry. So that you name Nahm as charlatan is just you trying to feel better when you were hurt. Accept that you are hurt and see that no amount of attacking Nahm will fix you.

You are one of the types of people who feel better when the one who hurted you gets punishment, but that's actually very egoistical and unhealty and actually very vomiting. 

I think shining light to the community about his conduct is important. If I talked to Nahm personally and it doesn't get resolved and I don't speak about it, then how will anything change in his conduct or how people approach his advice?

Do you believe anyone is a charlatan? Would we say the same about tv preachers, if someone were to expose the untruth of what they say?

I want to see Nahm stop teaching before he has a real teaching and understanding, but I see how I can't force that.

[Inliytened1]

@Kksd74628 yes. This is about him not @nahm. . He needs to look within himself..  But it is easier said than done.  If this is helping him right now to ultimately get to that point then fine.  Telling him he is "the kind of person, etc" is not going to help him.  Watch the personal attacks 

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Gregory1 said:

@Raptorsin7 please shut up and stop calling Nahm a "sharlatan"

I expect more from you then telling someone to shut up.  Next time it's a warning and you are close to being banned.  We are working through this with him.

[Raptorsin7]

16 minutes ago, roopepa said:

Who are the people shouting you down and gaslighting? Which users? Can you quote the posts and paste links where this has happened, so everyone, along with mods, can see it and make their assessment so that we could have closure.

I'd say the most clear example is @Gregory1 telling me to shut up and stop expressing my view that Nahm is a charlatan. But look at the comments of people wanting the thread closed, people telling me that Nahm doesn't charge.

I don't have a huge issue with the gaslighting personally, I was bringing attention to it because I saw it as further proof that people here are emotionally bonded in a toxic way to Nahm. Like the idea of being harshly critical of him would trigger them to attack me.

25 minutes ago, roopepa said:

By the way, I understand why you feel the need to make your voice heard, as I had very similar experience as you do, but with Leo. I understand the frustration and anger you feel.

I understand that. I have harmed people and gaslit them on this forum too so I get it, I was very upset with Nahm because I emotionally invested a lot of hope into the relationship.

I see how that was a mistake because I wouldn't behave the same way with teachers now, but I felt like I had to say something and I have bottled this up for years.

26 minutes ago, roopepa said:

What comes to the money you paid for Nahm's sessions, I think it would be reasonable and justified for you to ask your money back, as you clearly feel dissappointed and scammed. Have you asked for refund?

No I haven't, but It won't be necessary now. I take back demanding a refund. 

It's more that I really resent that Nahm played the role of a scammer. It's like I can't believe he was the kind of person who would engage financially with me like that.

27 minutes ago, roopepa said:

And just for the sake of clarity, do you want to make one more post explaining one by one each thing you think Nahm did wrong? As in, each lie you think he told, each charlatan move, each scam... etc. And would you like to tell how you felt before, during and after you worked with him? You can make your own thread for it if you like.

We will see. I don't know how i'm going to approach this, but I'm going to stop attacking him and try to do my best to approach this in a harmonious way

[Kksd74628]

@Inliytened1

I have used almost 3 hours of my time to solve this situation and I know that it's not easy to look within himself, but the thing is that actually only showing him hard truth of himself is only solution here, because otherwise he keeps arguing with the helper like he has done for 3 hours. If it would be up to me I would actually work his sadness with him for free NOW, but before we get to this he needs to understand that attacking Nahm is not the solution and only after that we can get to next thing.

And Nahm is obviously not charlatan like @Raptorsin7 says. And his intention to stop Nahm's teaching is something what we shouldn't allow here, period.

I can't include all empathy in my messages, because I am busy answering to @Raptorsin7 about all thought mistakes he is doing already. The truth is that I care about him, but how could I ever get to this if he does not believe that which I say is truth. Because he is very argumentative person only way out of this is to show him the bad he is making. I know this, because I am pretty good at argumenting and at conversations and I have faced similar cases and only way out of them was to make another one to realize that he is wrong. Otherwise he would just keep thinking better and better arguments and that woudn't fix that he is thinking illogically.

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I think shining light to the community about his conduct is important. If I talked to Nahm personally and it doesn't get resolved and I don't speak about it, then how will anything change in his conduct or how people approach his advice?

Do you believe anyone is a charlatan? Would we say the same about tv preachers, if someone were to expose the untruth of what they say?

I want to see Nahm stop teaching before he has a real teaching and understanding, but I see how I can't force that.

I really appreciate what you are doing. I'm sure it's affecting you emotionally, and many people are thinking that you're a poor idiot, but it's not like that. you have been the victim of a vampire, and that is hard and can make life a little bitter. to shed light on what has happened, you heal your wound and at the same time make others see the kind of person they were dealing with. This type of narcissist is a hypnotist, many people will see him as a saint even if you show that you gave him your house in exchange for Skype chat. do not listen to them. many people will have caught what happens here

[Raptorsin7]

@Inliytened1 Thank you. I'll try and do better

@Breakingthewall Thank you, I appreciate the support. I was wrong in not having more compassion for Nahm though, I think he is harmful, but I could have handled this better

[Gesundheit2]

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

We are working through this with him.

Why in public though? It's very strange that this thread has continued and degraded down to this level without locking it or giving any warnings. Suddenly nobody in the moderation team cares about Nahm's public image, let alone feelings. Suddenly the bias has shifted against the moderation team, when Nahm is down.

I can't believe you, people.