Is Nahm banned? Or just demoted?

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

it was donation based at first, then he started charging a fixed cost. I was donating a lot because I thought it was working, I think we were both deluded into thinking it was working. Nahm is not conscious that he is a poor teacher, I think he thinks he is doing good. So he thought that taking all the money was fair because I was benefitting. 

charge 1000 a month to a guy who is in a state of emotional weakness, in exchange for Skype chats, is to be a bloodsucking vampire, and there is no other possible point of view. Whether his teaching was legitimate or not is another matter. The guy is narcissistic, he doesn't know he's harmful, he probably thinks he's a messiah and the naive guys here think the same. you have been involved in a very painful and emotionally difficult matter, but it will be more useful to you in life than any transference and such nonsense, you probably will detect the next narcissistic fast, it's a gift. so go forward

[Gesundheit2]

Just now, Raptorsin7 said:

@Gili Trawangan @Gesundheit2 The fundamental issue is you have to ask yourself why was Nahm so constantly misunderstood on the forum?

If he was genuinely trying his best to teach people how to be happy and live in harmony, why are there so many people left with a sour taste in their mouths, or in a deluded state of thinking everything is going well like I was?

I think if Nahm was a genuine teacher, and honest person, then his presence and conduct would have led to greater harmony and people would not be harmed by his behavior.

You can make the same critique against literally anyone. You will never find a human that can please everyone, no matter how hard they try.

I am sure you can find critiques of Sadhguru, Adyashanti, Jed McKenna, Eckhart Tolle, etc... if you look enough. No such a thing as a perfect human being. That's your faulty assumption.

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Gesundheit2 said:

You can make the same critique against literally anyone. You will never find a human that can please everyone, no matter how hard they try.

I am sure you can find critiques of Sadhguru, Adyashanti, Jed McKenna, Eckhart Tolle, etc... if you look enough. No such a thing as a perfect human being. That's your faulty assumption.

You believe if someone talked to Jesus once a week for 8 months they would end up suicidal after?

[Kksd74628]

@Raptorsin7 

13 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I can, and I believe the people who were "genuinely" helped are deluded

I mean NOW your arguments are getting too random. If something made me smile that made me smile and you can't come here saying that you were deluted and you weren't happy for real.

11 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I think it would be your fault if you gave poor instructions about how to drive a car.

No, as I said if you weren't caution enough and that is your fault, because the hidden assumption behind this whole analogy was that I teached you and told you that be caution and you still ended up doing something wrong.

3 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

If he was genuinely trying his best to teach people how to be happy and live in harmony, why are there so many people left with a sour taste in their mouths, or in a deluded state of thinking everything is going well like I was?

You need to do the work by yourself and stop waiting someone else to fix your life for you. Thing is that teacher can tell things for you and tell what to do with the information that was given, but (s)he can't just change how you take all this.

@Gesundheit2

5 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

How is this even acceptable? I got banned for much less.

Agree with you and I advice just to report him and use @ feature to get Leo here to see what is happening.

[Tim R]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

 I think you are acting out of some emotional connection, and I'd like alternative views.

I personally don't care about Nahm, I never had a session with him or anything. I'm not defending him.

You're posts are just getting too much, I told you that if you want to criticise him, that's perfectly fine and I encourage you, but your posts have turned into personal attacks, that's the problem. 

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Tim R said:

I personally don't care about Nahm, I never had a session with him or anything. I'm not defending him.

You're posts are just getting too much, I told you that if you want to criticise him, that's perfectly fine and I encourage you, but your posts have turned into personal attacks, that's the problem. 

You clearly do care about Nahm given your response when he was banned. You seemed to strongly need there to be harmony between Leo and Nahm to the point that you wanted Nahm to compromise his teaching approach so everyone could stay together.

I should have the right to ask another mod to review what you said. If it was Leo it would be different, but if you stay stop talking about a serious topic it should not be acceptable that you have the right to shut down the conversation

[Gesundheit2]

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

You believe if someone talked to Jesus once a week for 8 months they would end up suicidal after?

Jesus got killed and crucified, for God's sake. He obviously had more than just one unsatisfied customer.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Raptorsin7]

@Kksd74628 I would not be where I am now without quality teachings. Grace and honest guidance will change your life, but most people can't discern what is good guidance and what is not.

4 minutes ago, Tim R said:

You're posts are just getting too much, I told you that if you want to criticise him, that's perfectly fine and I encourage you, but your posts have turned into personal attacks, that's the problem. 

I agree I can turn down the hatred, but that should not mean these discussions should not be had. 

Again, i'd like an alternative view, if Leo comes in and says we can't talk about Nahm and this thread needs to be shut down then it's different

[Tim R]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

You clearly do care about Nahm given your response when he was banned. You seemed to strongly need there to be harmony between Leo and Nahm to the point that you wanted Nahm to compromise his teaching approach so everyone could stay together.

I care about harmony, yes, If you called someone else "charlatan" over and over again, I'd give you the same response. 

3 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I should have the right to ask another mod to review what you said.

You do have that right.

[Tim R]

Just now, Raptorsin7 said:

I agree I can turn down the hatred, but that should not mean these discussions should not be had. 

I never said that this discussion shouldn't be had? I even encourage this discussion! 

I'm literally just asking you to turn down the hatred, that's it. 

[Kksd74628]

@Tim R

Thanks for coming here to make sense of the situation, but as you can see @Raptorsin7 is not changing his/her behavior so NOW give him chat restriction that is long enough, because (s)he has been warned here like 30 times already. And (s)he is fighting against your authority and that is another reason to give warning with chat restriction.

After that I suggest you to close this whole thread like I would have done as mod already (unfortunately Leo hasn't been intrested in giving mod privilliges to me). This whole thread is just attacking Nahm and actual question has been answered and there is no precise point in this thread.

Thank you!

-joNi-

[Raptorsin7]

7 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Jesus got killed and crucified, for God's sake. He obviously had more than just one unsatisfied customer.

I don't understand Jesus's death so if the story is actually true then maybe you have a point, but I believe it possible to at least be wise enough to where if you spend 8 months working with someone they will be transformed

@Tim R Okay I will turn down the personal attacks and hatred. But I think the definition of charlatan stands, and if you ask me my opinion I believe Nahm is a charlatan. But I will stop using it unnecessarily in the conversation

Edited February 23, 2022 by Raptorsin7

[Tim R]

@Kksd74628 I think Raptorsin7 and I are working this thing out. As I said multiple times now, the discussion is not at all problematic, it's the way this "discussion" has turned into personal attacks against nahm behind his back. And that, and only that, is not allowed.

[Raptorsin7]

2 minutes ago, Tim R said:

I never said that this discussion shouldn't be had? I even encourage this discussion! 

I'm literally just asking you to turn down the hatred, that's it. 

Okay that is true. I thought you at least insinuated it but I don't think you did.

I can have this conversation in a more harmonious way and I'll try to embody that

[Tim R]

@Raptorsin7 Thanks?? 

[Raptorsin7]

1 minute ago, Trickyp said:

What's the lection here, if one feels abused by Nahm he shall shut up and abuse somebody else instead since all is love and abuse doesn´t exist?

Some people are approaching this conversation with the intent to shout me down because the thought of Nahm not being who they thought he was is so painful. 

It's painful for me to, but I have just enough awareness and energy to where it's not overwhelming and I can still speak sense. Like even now my body shakes a bit as I write this, but I believe what i'm saying is true so I express it.

I think it's a real issue that this was never discussed before, and the constant gaslighting and shouting down is a big part of that. I had been passively aggressively critical of Nahm in my journal a few times, and i got dog piled by people telling me it was my fault, Nahm's a great guy, etc

[Vinnie]

Leo's finally woken up! Lmao.

[Kksd74628]

@Tim R

I am glad that you stopped this hatred, but as I said Leo does not want any drama here and there is reason that the original Nahm thread was being closed. 

On 16.2.2022 at 5:47 AM, Leo Gura said:

People causing drama, spreading ignorance, right-wing ideology, or even just repeatedly asking stupid questions will be banned.

I agree that the problem is not discussing about what Nahm did or didn't, but preferably I would hear Nahm's own perspective to this, because how could discussion where one is shaking from hatred, fear or something could lead to anywhere good.

8 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Like even now my body shakes a bit as I write this, but I believe what i'm saying is true so I express it.

I mean we can talk about this thing, but conversation that includes too much feelings and has clear potentiality to be escalated should be stopped imo. For example problem in this forum was not the communication of solipsism, but how immaturely people talked about the topic and that was the reason we needed to stop talking about this and I am sure that same will happen with this Nahm case when Leo sees that this is getting out of hands.

@Leo Gura himself said as followed: Note: do not attack each other over this. 

So that is the main reason I started talking about this whole thing. Just to prevent things from escalating and as I said I think NOW everything is discussed so it's time to stop talking about Nahm, because this is not what this forum is for. Let's move on!

 

[Raptorsin7]

@Kksd74628 I think we should speak about Nahm until we get closure and resolution. Burying the conversation is not going to help anyone.

[Gesundheit2]

35 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I agree I can turn down the hatred, but that should not mean these discussions should not be had.

You should have talked to Nahm in private first when you were having the problems. All of this ranting is unnecessary. If you talked and didn't like his response, then you should have stopped right there.

31 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I believe it possible to at least be wise enough to where if you spend 8 months working with someone they will be transformed

Well, there you have it. That's the belief that's created this problem for you, and will keep creating more of the same problem if you don't investigate its truth and then change it.

The reality is that cause and effect are an illusion. And that's especially true with the spiritual quest. One person will be transformed by listening to Jesus, and another one will become suicidal. There are no strict rules that govern the human mind.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Gesundheit2