Is Nahm banned? Or just demoted?

[Peelingthelayers]

@Raptorsin7@TrickypLearn from him?? He is a butthurt child blaming that HE HIMSELF showed up week after week and didnt feel like he got something out of it. I have a little story. I do martial arts, and sometimes people join a do it for only a year and end up quitting, because they just dont get it and progress way slower than other people. @Raptorsin7Did you ever consider you might be in that category? Go do something else with your time and money if you dont get whatever it is you want and dont blame other people for it.  WAKE UP

[Raptorsin7]

@Kksd74628 I am trying to show the people on the forum the harm Nahm has caused. You can read the thread I post a few posts ago, I was stuck in the same thought loops and perspective as many of them.

I ended up suicidal after working with him, I think he is genuinely dangerous.

I understand that I also played a role in my time with Nahm ending in disaster. I was irresponsible, arrogant, abused psychidelics, and many more toxic things and that played a role in the coaching not working, but I have never seen Nahm take responsibility for his role in how things turned out.

There are consequences to behavior, and even though Nahm may have genuinely believed he was being helpful and did not do anything wrong, when you observe the reality of what is happening I think there is a malicious pattern forming

 

[Raptorsin7]

20 minutes ago, Peelingthelayers said:

Hello. I only visisted this site to check Nahms profile and view the threads he was replying to. I didnt always understand him, but whenever he wasnt speaking too "Neo-Ablabla", i always understood him, and his answers always resonated and were most helpful. I also spoke with him a few times on zoom, where he was very loving and brilliant (sometimes hard to understand) and  he never cared how much time we used. 

It was a bit wierd the way he continued to reply in the threads the same way at times, but it was never as deeply harmful as other things ive read on this forum, and he was the only one stepping up when people were given damaging advice of people like Leo whos answers i almost couldn't bear to see. Such a horrible transformation Leo has taken compared to the passionate, happy guy from 5 years ago or more. Anyways thats my view.

Nahm was the only reason to be here, even when not making any sense. Im out.

And one thing, @Raptorsin7 Take some responsibility for yourself and quit whining. He was trying to HELP YOU even though it is very obvious from reading where you are coming from that that is a very, very hard task. Just because you paid thousands of dollars for something does not guarantee anything. Just because you do math with a teacher 1 time a week for a year will not turn you into Einstein. We are talking about happiness and creating a good life, how THE F do you expect someone to change that for you during a session once a week. GO out and create a life for yourself you poor guy.. Stop blaming and take responsibility. 

Love to Nahm and good luck with this site lol

I acknowledge the role I played in my relationship with Nahm on the forum. I did many things wrong, and in hindsight I would have changed so much about how I interacted with him. I have since completely changed my approach with teachers, and if I sense i'm not getting benefit I will leave quickly, and i'm working on being less of a people pleaser.

My issue with Nahm is his approach is harmful. People should not teach until they themselves are living in harmony and can offer quality advice, because when they teach prematurely there will be a trail of harm left. I believe I was harmed by Nahm, and although I am also responsible for what I did to myself, we both we part of the situation.

Imagine if a surgery goes wrong on an obese person. Yes, the obese person is likely to blame for many things, maybe they could have been healthier, maybe their fatness played a role in the surgery not working, but you must also look at the conduct of the surgeon. Both parties are responsible.

And it's a misnomer to think that teaching can't be effective once  a week. It's about the quality of the guidance. If you find quality teachers, which is hard I think it took me many years of seeking before I developed my discernment to where I believe I can sense good teachers, then you will make progress. You don't have to question yourself or be gaslit into believing your making progress, because it will be known energetically and in your behavior and conduct in the world

[Tim R]

@Raptorsin7 You're frustrated and upset about Nahm for almost a day now, enough now. This is no longer constructive criticism. You had several opportunities to point out your problem, you did. What you're doing now is just calling Nahm a charlatan, we get it. You're allowed to be upset, but stop making dozens of the same posts.

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Tim R said:

@Raptorsin7 You're frustrated and upset about Nahm for almost a day now, enough now. This is no longer constructive criticism. You had several opportunities to point out your problem, you did. What you're doing now is just calling Nahm a charlatan, we get it. You're allowed to be upset, but stop making dozens of the same posts.

I am frustrated that there are people on the forum with the same mind virus that I had when I was working with Nahm, and I ended up suicidal and almost killed myself.

As long as there are people who genuinely believe Nahm is a saint then I think it's an issue of misperception that no one seems willing or able to address

[Tim R]

@Raptorsin7 But look, there are people who were genuinely helped by Nahm. You can't just say "Nahm is a charlatan, period" only because it didn't work out for you. You know?

[Kksd74628]

@Raptorsin7 

Thing is that you don't need to show anything anymore. Your opinion has been heard and anything more is just spreading hatred. There are consequences in everything you do and spirituality has its dangers. Many teachings are dangerous if used wrongly. We just can't warn you again and again not hurting yourself.

As I have said in another communication before - If I teach you to drive a car and you end up hurting yourself, because you weren't caution enough - that's not my fault, but yours.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Kksd74628

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Tim R said:

@Raptorsin7 But look, there are people who were genuinely helped by Nahm. You can't just say "Nahm is a charlatan, period" only because it didn't work out for you. You know?

I can, and I believe the people who were "genuinely" helped are deluded, and even if some people were helped by him to whatever degree it doesn't change the fact that Nahm is doing genuine harm.

A serial killer can be helpful at work, but we wouldn't say that some people were genuinely helped by him so he could avoid scrutiny.

If you would have asked me a few years ago did Nahm genuinely help me I would have said hell yes and screamed it from the roof tops. After that phase I was suicidal. So ideally we can skip all of this and get to the truth about his presence and impact.

[Breakingthewall]

@Raptorsin7 i was looking in the messages but I can't find it. How much money exactly did you give him? in how much time? how were the payments?

[Tim R]

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I am frustrated that there are people on the forum with the same mind virus that I had when I was working with Nahm, and I ended up suicidal and almost killed myself.

This is of course a very serious issue and you need to a dress it as such, but not by calling him a charlatan. Do it in a most contsructive, understanding and helpful way possible. And try to take your own biases into account, I know you're frustrated because of all the money, I understand that. But you mustn't allow this to blind you. 

I think it would also be much better for you personally, it might help you work through these issues, frustrations and resentments.

[Raptorsin7]

3 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Raptorsin7 

Thing is that you don't need to show anything anymore. Your opinion has been heard and anything more is just spreading hatred. There are consequences in everything you do and spirituality has its dangers. Many teachings are dangerous if used wrongly. We just can't warn you again and again not hurting yourself.

As I have said in another communication before - If I teach you to drive a car and you end up hurting yourself, because you weren't caution enough - that's not my fault, but yours.

I think it would be your fault if you gave poor instructions about how to drive a car. In that analogy, Nahm represented himself as an authority on driving and cars, and then when I got in a car accident he shifted blame and said it's my fault for not knowing how to drive and not listening to his advice

@Breakingthewall I don't remember the exact number but I believe it was anywhere from 5-10k over the course of about 8 total months of conversations

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

don't remember the exact number but I believe it was anywhere from 5-10k over the course of about 8 total months of conversations

Did he charge per hour, or was it the price of a full course? it is a very serious amount

[Raptorsin7]

3 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Raptorsin7 

Thing is that you don't need to show anything anymore. Your opinion has been heard and anything more is just spreading hatred. There are consequences in everything you do and spirituality has its dangers. Many teachings are dangerous if used wrongly. We just can't warn you again and again not hurting yourself.

As I have said in another communication before - If I teach you to drive a car and you end up hurting yourself, because you weren't caution enough - that's not my fault, but yours.

I think it would be your fault if you gave poor instructions about how to drive a car. In that analogy, Nahm represented himself as an authority on driving and cars, and then when I got in a car accident he shifted blame and said it's my fault for not knowing how to drive and not listening to his advice

1 minute ago, Tim R said:

This is of course a very serious issue and you need to a dress it as such, but not by calling him a charlatan. Do it in a most contsructive, understanding and helpful way possible. And try to take your own biases into account, I know you're frustrated because of all the money, I understand that. But you mustn't allow this to blind you. 

I think it would also be much better for you personally, it might help you work through these issues, frustrations and resentments.

Charlatan

a person who pretends to special knowledge or skill that he or she does not possess;

I believe that is an accurate description of Nahm's conduct on the forum and in the calls.

I am not frustrated because of the money, that's actually a minor part of it. It's the investment I made emotionally, mentally, spiritually etc and how I was treated and result of the relationship.

I can definitely do better in my delivery, but part of what you are doing is shielding Nahm from criticism. Many people have tried to (unconsciously or consciously idk) shut down this conversation because they don't want to see the dark side of Nahm. 

 

[Gili Trawangan]

2 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I am frustrated that there are people on the forum with the same mind virus that I had when I was working with Nahm, and I ended up suicidal and almost killed myself.

As long as there are people who genuinely believe Nahm is a saint then I think it's an issue of misperception that no one seems willing or able to address

This is the only time I'm going to engage with one of your posts, because you are clearly coming from a traumatized/hurt state. And I don't like to feed negativity, it doesn't help anyone.

I have NEVER exchanged messages with Nahm on this forum. I don't know him, nor do I care what he does in his private life. I am however aware of messages, and the "vibe" or "energy" behind them. And what he speaks comes from Truth - if that can even be said.

The only thing he can be accused of as a member of this forum has been amply debated - sometimes not meeting people where they're at and jumping into non-duality when a relative approach was perhaps more useful.

But his energy was full of positivity, love and insight. This isn't about the person behind the keyboard - there isn't one  - it's about aligning with true nature, and true nature is love and goodness - not separation and hatred.

Grace and peace to all.

[Gesundheit2]

13 minutes ago, Tim R said:

@Raptorsin7 You're frustrated and upset about Nahm for almost a day now, enough now. This is no longer constructive criticism. You had several opportunities to point out your problem, you did. What you're doing now is just calling Nahm a charlatan, we get it. You're allowed to be upset, but stop making dozens of the same posts.

How is this even acceptable? I got banned for much less.

[Raptorsin7]

3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Did he charge per hour, or was it the price of a full course? it is a very serious amount

it was donation based at first, then he started charging a fixed cost. I was donating a lot because I thought it was working, I think we were both deluded into thinking it was working. Nahm is not conscious that he is a poor teacher, I think he thinks he is doing good. So he thought that taking all the money was fair because I was benefitting. 

[Raptorsin7]

@Gili Trawangan @Gesundheit2 The fundamental issue is you have to ask yourself why was Nahm so constantly misunderstood on the forum?

If he was genuinely trying his best to teach people how to be happy and live in harmony, why are there so many people left with a sour taste in their mouths, or in a deluded state of thinking everything is going well like I was?

I think if Nahm was a genuine teacher, and honest person, then his presence and conduct would have led to greater harmony and people would not be harmed by his behavior.

The mark of a Budhha or a Christ would be love and harmony wherever they went. You wouldn't see the trail left by Nahm as a teacher. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Raptorsin7

[Gidiot]

Think it was the correct decision Leo, but this thread is definitely getting out of hand.

 

cheers

 

p.s. I thought the zen koan comparison was a good one, sometimes you just need a straight answer but some people just won’t give you and inch, part of the reason I like users like @VeganAwake and Jim Newman/tony parsons is directly that but I remember when asked if they use advaita language even they conceded that there is no need to all the time only as a pointer.

[Tim R]

2 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

How is this even acceptable? I got banned for much less.

He's on the brink. If he keeps calling Nahm a charlatan, he'll get a warning too. 

@Raptorsin7 Enough now, I'm serious.

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Tim R said:

Enough now, I'm serious.

I want another mod to review this. I think you are acting out of some emotional connection, and I'd like alternative views.

You do not have the absolute authority on this forum to decide what is acceptable speech and what is not