Is Nahm banned? Or just demoted?

[The0Self]

1 minute ago, Jodistrict said:

Neo-Advaita seems to be a treasure trove of sound bites for scammers.  Why not just assemble yourself a bag of chinese fortune cookies containg Neo-Advaita sound bites, and you will have yourself a low cost neo-advaita guru?  No need to pay thousands of dollars.  I hate to say that because I respect Hindu philosophy.  But Western culture makes a mess of everything.

Neo-Advaita is incredibly rife with delusion, but that's very different from the direct nondual communication of a human which no longer feels like a separate person -- which is incredibly rare. It is what Neo-Advaita aims to replicate but does so from an illusory intentional perspective.

[Loba]

9 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

Neo-Advaita seems to be a treasure trove of sound bites for scammers.  Why not just assemble yourself a bag of chinese fortune cookies containg Neo-Advaita sound bites, and you will have yourself a low cost neo-advaita guru?  No need to pay thousands of dollars.  I hate to say that because I respect Hindu philosophy.  But Western culture makes a mess of everything.

I literally have that and I use it every day, I open my bag and get a new fortune and contemplate on it a bit for the day and then set it down on my altar before lighting incense and meditating.
In fact, I didn't get my two for the day, maybe they will have some wisdom... let's find out:

Quote

First:
"Good luck is coming your way" 

Second:
"Let your heart speak to other's hearts."

20 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

They gaslight you, and act like you are the crazy one for questioning Nahm.

In their minds Nahm is god, so they have so much invested in the conception that Nahm is honest and acts with integrity

I am not gaslighting this person, we just have differing opinions and I am trying to learn more, our conversation is actually very open, not gaslighty at all; I'm not gunna tell them they're wrong, I'll just offer my opinions and stance and go from there - I'm just practicing critical thinking right now tbh.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Loba

[Happy Lizard]

47 minutes ago, Loba said:

What is causing that kind of atmosphere, and how/what would you do to help facilitate change where people can feel heard to talk to someone upfront about an issue?  Because I am sure, since Nahm wanted to do teaching as a career that if he knew that this many people were having a hard time understanding him, he could change his approach - but since only a few spoke up, and many were okay with him - that isn't giving someone correct feedback to change.

that's not the case unfortunately, I urge you to check his comments and the responses to them. Most of the time people would be saying something similar to this -> ' huh? what? but this is not a fair point ? ' or ' but you do that too, this isn't helpful !'. in contrast Leo is literarily facing criticism form trolls all the time, but he does care and have changed some of his ways, And also him or any other person would give you a respond like : ' thinks for the feed back, I'll try to work on this' or gives some sort of information for you to digest. I have only seen Nahm correcting others when they ask a question, but I also could be pushing too hard on this front. maybe there's a wealth of post where he genuinely helped and changed people's lives, that I'm not taking into account, which would be a side that I'm neglecting.  
 

47 minutes ago, Loba said:

I also believe that because he can't speak for himself here - well he could if he wanted to, but most likely won't - that we have to be cautious about the facts and make sure we stick to them so that the reputation he earns is at least as fair as possible, and that involves seeing things from all angles.

I agree, which is why I don't want to leave too many comments about this, I'm only doing so to discuss your points. 

I will say this again. it doesn't matter to me to criticize Nahm that much, I'm just pointing out what I observed, if it's too late or too disrespectful, I'm sorry everyone I truly don't mean any ill will. 


EDIT: I just thought this should be added to this thread, from 13:18 - 16:27
 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Happy Lizard

[Loba]

8 minutes ago, Happy Lizard said:

that's not the case unfortunately, I urge you to check his comments and the responses to them. Most of the time people would be saying something similar to this -> ' huh? what? but this is not a fair point ? ' or ' but you do that too, this isn't helpful !'. in contrast Leo is literarily facing criticism form trolls all the time, but he does care and have changed some of his ways, And also him or any other person would give you a respond like : ' thinks for the feed back, I'll try to work on this' or gives some sort of information for you to digest. I have only seen Nahm correcting others when they ask a question, but I also could be pushing too hard on this front. maybe there's a wealth of post where he genuinely helped and changed people's lives, that I'm not taking into account, which would be a side that I'm neglecting.  

I'll have to go through and check the different threads and see what the commenters posted, because just going over his posts alone without context on his profile - I was honestly able to follow along pretty well with what he was saying just by the posts as a standalone - he was trying to get everyone back to the basics, it seems - and it looks like he was trying to indirectly point out some areas where he felt Leo needed

to work on.  I didn't get too much of an arrogant or even rude vibe, just kind of cheeky and playful.

But if people were not understanding him and mentioning this time and time again, I can see why that would be a problem.  I guess if he wants to teach he will have to bridge that gap - at least online, idk what he is like as a teacher in person.

14 minutes ago, Happy Lizard said:

I agree, which is why I don't want to leave too many comments about this, I'm only doing so to discuss your points. 

I will say this again. it doesn't matter to me to criticize Nahm that much, I'm just pointing out what I observed, if it's too late or too disrespectful, I'm sorry everyone I truly don't mean any ill will. 

Okay, would you like to end it here?

Of course, you just offered your opinion and I offered mine and they differed a bit, but don't leave feeling like you did something wrong for speaking out - you should have every right to say what you see and how you feel about it irregardless of if we disagree or not.  I don't think we do, there are just some things that I have not looked into in order to fully form my own opinion, and it's good that you said something now, I suppose.

Maybe, then, perhaps my opinion on people saying something later on is the wrong viewpoint to have, and what is more correct is that we need to build a community where people feel more free to express their opinions and experiences with members that are in a position of perceived knowledge/power over others - because we also don't want Truth getting diluted, either - by anyone who might be viewed as knowing more than other people, that takes their authority away from them.

Hmmmn, that is probably one of the subtle issues then, that should be brought to light - why do so many members here not feel heard?
How did it happen that so many people felt the same way, few addressed it, and it took something like this for people to feel safe saying something?
What then, is in the collective environment that could change so that we all feel safe to speak our minds - that would be the first step to preventing this in the future.

Something where even if not everyone agrees, everyone still has the chance to be heard - 'cause that's also not good that people feel gaslit if they can't speak up either.  If there's those feelings, too, then there's a reason for it.

Just spitballing here.

 

[Happy Lizard]

29 minutes ago, Loba said:

I'll have to go through and check the different threads and see what the commenters posted, because just going over his posts alone without context on his profile - I was honestly able to follow along pretty well with what he was saying just by the posts as a standalone - he was trying to get everyone back to the basics, it seems - and it looks like he was trying to indirectly point out some areas where he felt Leo needed

you can search his name (and move a number of pages because of the resent posts) to see what others' interactions with him were like. and also, like I said, when he is not talking to you it sound like truth/a pointer/what we all have heard form spiritual teachers. but (my experience) when he talks to you, it's very different, it's like the video I posted -check my last edit-  and when you question that you don't get anywhere with him.

also, how is he not overly self promoting like some people claim? it's very subtle -> "check the dreamborad *a link to his website* " or " indeed... it's all in the emotional scale *link to website*" . like ... no one can see how subtle this was form our standpoint now? I certainly didn't, but I also just started reading the guidelines carefully just recently.
 

29 minutes ago, Loba said:

you should have every right to say what you see and how you feel about it irregardless of if we disagree or not.  I don't think we do, there are just some things that I have not looked into in order to fully form my own opinion, and it's good that you said something now, I suppose.

thank you! I did actually feel afraid to voice this out, but our conversation is so far been constructive for me.

29 minutes ago, Loba said:

Hmmmn, that is probably one of the subtle issues then, that should be brought to light - why do so many members here not feel heard?
How did it happen that so many people felt the same way, few addressed it, and it took something like this for people to feel safe saying something?

check last edit  

I'm not sure why myself, but also some element of it that everyone was playing along thinking 'ok this dude gets a pass, he's enlightened right? ok then checks out!' at least that was me, which is an Idiotic way of thinking, but also very subtle to see sometimes.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Happy Lizard

[Raptorsin7]

1 hour ago, Ananta said:

No, it's because you are saying you take responsibility, but you aren't. You paid him thousands in donations, BECAUSE YOU WANTED TO! You believed he would end your suffering. That was a story you told yourself. 

I was a delusional seeker, seeking guidance from someone who represented themselves as an authority and healing and happiness.

Where is the responsibility of the teacher, who by definition is in s position of authority?

It's not surprising you don't understand this. But I would never take advantage of someone the way nahm did, even back then I couldn't imagine leading someone like that which really baffles me 

[Reciprocality]

It is almost like this thread could need a mod, oh wait.

[Raptorsin7]

6 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

I could be wrong again..but I don't feel he was purposely swindling.  He may have been a spiritual "coo coo" in a sense..but that was just him.  He probably honestly thought he could give you liberation or awakening or peace of mind..whatever.. in other words it came from a place of love..but it seems he's not playing with a full deck.  Again I don't want to pounce on him I just want to mention that.  He didn't seem like a guy purposely out to scam you..he was way too out there for something like that.  However that said..you knew him better and you could be right.

It was unconscious. If he knew better he would have done better.

It's akin to malicious negligence. It didn't come from love, unless you want to say everything anyone does comes from love in which case if someone murders your entire family we could also they acted from love.

He is not enlightened, but represented himself as an authority on spirituality which is my biggest issue with his approach and teaching. 

Fundamentally, he isn't a spiritual authority, and yet presented himself as such (he probably believes he is an authority), and then compounded it incompetence and unethical conduct in a student-guru relationship. I've yet to see anyone dispute these points, or Nahm ever acknowledge the truth of these claims. 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and Nahm will likely leave a trail of people like me who don't have the understanding or will to speak out. 

I bet most of you were very surprised about how many people came out and said they also felt invalidated, harmed, etc by Nahm's conduct

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

It's akin to malicious negligence.

What do you mean by this? 

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Preety_India said:

What do you mean by this? 

He wasn't willing and knowingly setting out to do harm to people, but his approach is devoid of integrity, ethics, genuine understanding, and many more facets such that he was unconsciously acting in a way that harmed people. The twisted part is his approach on the surface seemed like he was just a good guy trying to help everyone out, but when you look at the results of his approach you see that there is a stark disconnect between the self image he displays and how people are receiving and being impact by his advice.

If no one took Nahm seriously there would be no issue, he would be another delusional seeker who thinks he's a teacher. But it's the illusion of authority and the way he portrayed himself to others that creates a dangerous situation

[Preety_India]

Just now, Raptorsin7 said:

He wasn't willing and knowingly setting out to do harm to people, but his approach is devoid of integrity, ethics, genuine understanding, and many more facets such that he was unconsciously acting in a way that harmed people. The twisted part is his approach on the surface seemed like he was just a good guy trying to help everyone out, but when you look at the results of his approach you see that there is a stark disconnect between the self image he displays and how people are receiving and being impact by his advice.

If no one took Nahm seriously there would be no issue, he would be another delusional seeker who thinks he's a teacher. But it's the illusion of authority and the way he portrayed himself to others that creates a dangerous situation

What do you think in your mind would have been the case if someone else here  would have done the same thing what he did? 

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Preety_India said:

What do you think in your mind would have been the case if someone else here  would have done the same thing what he did? 

What do you mean? I don't understand

[Preety_India]

5 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

What do you mean? I don't understand

If it wasn't Nahm but some regular member would have done the same thing to you, what would you think would have been the reaction of the forum? In my opinion I think it would have been taken strictly, because it's Nahm so... you get what I mean. I kinda smell double standards. 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Preety_India

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, Preety_India said:

If it wasn't Nahm but some regular member would have done the same thing to you, what would you think would have been the reaction of the forum? In my opinion I think it would have been taken strictly, because it's Nahm so... you get what I mean. 

 

Yeah that's exactly the issue. Nahm has a cult following on the forum who will gaslight you and shift blame whenever he is criticized. Look through these threads they are littered everywhere.

It's why it's so difficult to bring light to these kinds of situations. Look at how much i've been attacked. 

But it's okay, this is nothing to me

[puporing]

@Raptorsin7 @Preety_India Also I feel the scale of this matters, don't know the details of how 'donations' worked, but it's one thing to pay a few sessions and realize it's not working for you (say hundreds of dollars), vs something pretty astronomical imo. That is pretty traumatizing in and of itself.

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, puporing said:

@Raptorsin7 @Preety_India Also I feel the scale of this matters, don't know the details of how 'donations' worked, but it's one thing to pay a few sessions and realize it's not working for you (say hundreds of dollars), vs something pretty astronomical imo. That is pretty traumatizing in and of itself.

Totally agree. For me it would have been earth shattering. I would have felt very guilty and regretted it so much especially if it were my parent's hard earned money.. It would led to feelings of  shame and guilt. 

I feel for the dude @Raptorsin7 not only did he end up spending that but also be gaslighted by everyone for opening up about his situation when he actually did the right thing by sharing it with everyone. He basically saved others from a similar fate.

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Preety_India

[Raptorsin7]

Just now, puporing said:

@Raptorsin7 @Preety_India Also I feel the scale of this matters, don't know the details of how 'donations' worked, but it's one thing to pay a few sessions and realize it's not working for you (say hundreds of dollars), vs something pretty astronomical imo. That is pretty traumatizing in and of itself.

The question is why would someone continue to accept donations while failing to meaningfully share their understanding and wisdom with the seeker.

The answer imo is deep delusion and incompetence.

He either thought he actually was helping which is a symptom of incompetence and delusion, or he thought he was giving great advice but I simply failed to utilize his wisdom, which I would dispute on the grounds his advice is useless and the people parroting his advice or claimed he was of immense help would crumble under simple scrutiny. Furthermore, if the fundamental issue was that his advice was brilliant but I simply didn't act on it, then you would think he would shift focus and address the issue of me not applying and taking responsibility for applying his teaching. To no one's surprise that did not happen.

[puporing]

5 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

He basically saved others from a similar fate.

Yes exactly. 

@Raptorsin7 It's so hard to know the truth beyond what is presented, one can only really speculate and go with and trust their intuitions. But personally don't have a great feeling when someone asks for something like $150/hr for example and you not getting much value each time. It may be a different story if every time/session you felt like a lot of growth was happening that was worth what you were paying, and at some point you've exhausted growing with the person and then stopped. But sounds like your case has to do with putting a lot of trust on someone from the start as one might assume this community has more trustworthy people than the outside, so I think Leo has some responsibility here as well for not knowing what's going on.

[Reciprocality]

@Raptorsin7  You thinking that cult following or not, delusion or non delusion, shortsightedness or not, wisdom or less wisdom has any bearing on enlightenment or non enlightenment is a mistake. (which is not to speak in general terms about how likely you are to be wise from a state of enlightenment)

There is nothing more clearly established from a mere peak at a history then that. 

This Nahm case should show the general direction this forum will take, but why this obsession with him in particular? I ask not because I think this obsession is unwarranted, but because I don't understand it. Which of his advises were useless?

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, puporing said:

Yes exactly. 

@Raptorsin7 It's so hard to know the truth beyond what is presented, one can only really speculate and go with and trust their intuitions. But personally don't have a great feeling when someone asks for something like $150/hr for example and you not getting much value each time. It may be a different story if every time/session you felt like a lot of growth was happening that was worth what you were paying, and at some point you've exhausted growing with the person and then stopped. But sounds like your case has to do with putting a lot of trust on someone from the start as one might assume this community has more trustworthy people than the outside, so I think Leo has some responsibility here as well for not knowing what's going on.

Yes exactly. It's all about putting too much trust to the point that one simply cannot see bad consequences happening. 

One is always wishing that only good is going to come. 

Important lesson learned.