Is Nahm banned? Or just demoted?

[Loba]

*furrows brow a bit*  I wouldn't go so far as to claim him a madman...  there's really only one thing he did, which was accept too much money for something he couldn't deliver; but other than that, his posts would direct you to what Leo is talking about, too, and have before.  They weren't bad posts, just inaccessible sometimes.

I can be mad myself at times... maybe, if it were true, just getting the chance to take time off would've been enough, and a conversation afterwards about it.

This kind of stuff sucks, because you want everyone to win.

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, allislove said:

@Inliytened1

Anyway, good luck in your journey as well ?

This whole thing is not interested for me anymore... by seeing that the member who contributed the most to the forum is leaving in such a way.

Thanks man you too...i know you looked up to him a lot.

[hyruga]

13 hours ago, Scholar said:

I don't think he can bring himself to do that, his response would be something like "Defend what? There is no "Nahm" and there is no "position".There is only Truth. Love, love, love".

 

Epic Answer.

If there is no "Nahm", then "he" certainly don't have to care what others think. And "he" can just continue to post over here as per normal. There is only Truth. Love, love, love.

[Happy Lizard]

32 minutes ago, Loba said:

 there's really only one thing he did, which was accept too much money for something he couldn't deliver; but other than that, his posts would direct you to what Leo is talking about, too, and have before.  They weren't bad posts, just inaccessible sometimes.

he did use to talk at/tell/talk down to people a lot ... I have witnessed this in many topics yet thought that was just him , I respected him and gave authority and reverence  just because everyone else was doing it. He would post things that when I'm reading, and it's not directed at me it feels true. yet when he talks/post back to me, it feels ... well, weird, similar to someone saying a bad thing about you but with a grin. 

even with all of that said, I just kept on thinking: "he's a mod, he deserves respect, he's obviously kind to others and others like him. whatever, maybe he's just weird with people like that."

The fact that lots of people are not liking what happened, and are just now talking is not because we are vaulters that pray on dead corps, the fact is, we all didn't like it, and we all couldn't speak out, we didn't even know how to put it. Even mods are having a hard time believing us, but I also don't appreciate implying that lots of us here are traitors to talk about someone behind their back .... like, no! try to see that we are also concerned and want the best for this community as you are, it's just happing all of sudden which I can see why it's causing so much controversy. 

I think enough has been said here to have a critical thinking member to decide for themselves where they stand on things regarding Nahm.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Happy Lizard

[aurum]

Shitty situation.

Leo has to do what he thinks is right for the forum.

As much as I like Nahm, I have to agree that the majority of the time I couldn’t understand his posts at all.

I’m sure Nahm understood Nahm, but it didn’t seem to translate to practical teachings at times.

He did contribute massively to the forum. I hope he finds a place where his teachings are better received, or perhaps he switches up his style. 

[Loba]

47 minutes ago, Happy Lizard said:

he did use to talk at/tell/talk down to people a lot ... I have witnessed this in many topics yet thought that was just him , I respected him and gave authority and reverence  just because everyone else was doing it. He would post things that when I'm reading, and it's not directed at me it feels true. yet when he talks/post back to me, it feels ... well, weird, similar to someone saying a bad thing about you but with a grin. 

Really?  I guess I never noticed or saw this and when I would ask a question, he has always been respectful/helpful and gave me good advice on forgiveness one time about a year ago that was more than just nonsense.  I always assumed he just had a cheerful kind of demeanor.

even with all of that said, I just kept on believe: "he's a mod, he deserves respect, he's obviously kind  to others and others like him. whatever, maybe he's just weird with people like that."

the fact that lots of people are not liking what happened, and are just now talking is not because we are vaulters that pray on a dead corps, the
fact is we all didn't like it and it, we all couldn't speak out, we didn't even know how to put it. Even mods are having a hard time believing us, but I also don't appreciate implying that lots of us here are treaters to talk about someone behind their back .... like, no! try to see that we are also concerned and want the best for this community as you are, it's just happing all of sudden which I can see why it's causing so much controversy. 

The thing is, though, I see Raptor has a reason for why he feels the way he does, but everyone else, for the most part, is offering just opinions on how they feel he should teach/respond to others, which I also agree with - however, most people did have the opportunity to say something at some point and as someone who speaks their mind 'when it happens and not months later', if you have a problem with a mod or someone, the lesson here is to speak up asap instead of waiting around until something happens to say something.  This is respectful of everyone, if there is a problem.  You can't solve anything if the other party doesn't know.  How could he have changed his teachings if no one was willing/ or only a few were willing to tell him.
The thing is, this forum has a history of doing this to banned members, where no one says anything about the person while they are there - but piles it on after they've been kicked and it's, well it's not the best form, as opposed to pointing out what is wrong - as it is happening, or as you just notice it.  This is a certain problem with this place that should be addressed.  If we have problems with each other, it should be spoken about, talked about and not held back just because someone is in a form of power i.e. mod - I have disagreed with mods/Leo before, it's not the end of the world to do so.  If you see something in the future that bothers you, like right now, you have every right to say how you feel, and should.  
But after time has passed, it makes it harder to get things done efficiently and fairly, because details get lost, they get turned around, muddled.  It does kind of look a bit like vultures going after a corpse - because people really felt the need to drive home the "I can't understand you" point - but it's like... the guy isn't Bill Cosby, it's not like he did this super nefarious thing that requires being talked to that way, or reacted to in that way...idk, I feel it went a little bit too hard imo.

I think enough has been said here to have a critical thinking member to decide for themselves where they stand on things regarding Nahm.

Agreed.

 

[Raptorsin7]

3 hours ago, Nadosa said:

The expectation of change changed to full recognition of felt guidance and being who I already and always have been. ME. 

Okay so then what? 

So you feel yourself, great I can do that too. But where does that lead?

How did realizing you have always been you meaningfully change anything about your life 

[Raptorsin7]

2 hours ago, Ananta said:

I know it probably feels good to drag his name through the mud, since you feel you were taken by him, but ultimately you need to own your actions and part in this whole thing.

You agreed for him to work with you. You agreed to give him donations and I highly doubt he said for you to give him thousands in donations. I would bet you suggested for it to be thousands. If he worked with you for 6-8 months and sometime within that time period he decided to start charging for his services, then you could have walked away at that point, but no, you paid more.

Sorry, but you have some responsibility here. Instead of actually taking responsibility for your actions your saying he was a horrible teacher, a charlatan, etc, etc. He didn't end your suffering I guess and your pissed about it.

Live and learn.

He is a charlatan, and I have taken responsibility.

I am doing a service by pointing out his fraud so people can learn from my example.

The reason you feel the compulsion to check what I'm saying is likely because you lack integrity and ethics, and so empathize with dishonest folks like Nahm 

[Vido]

Oh no! The only encounter I had with him was when I just woke up and was having a bad day RIP

Edited February 23, 2022 by Vido

[Raptorsin7]

1 hour ago, hyruga said:

Epic Answer.

If there is no "Nahm", then "he" certainly don't have to care what others think. And "he" can just continue to post over here as per normal. There is only Truth. Love, love, love.

He has no integrity he can't admit to his own delivry and accept responsibility for what happened 

To everyone who feels compelled to stand up and defend Nahm

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Raptorsin7

[Happy Lizard]

9 minutes ago, Loba said:

  It does kind of look a bit like vultures going after a corpse - because people really felt the need to drive home the "I can't understand you" point

nope, I have to disagree here. 

it's not like people didn't speak. they did, but were given the Teflon pan treatment. Some didn't, like me, and the reason why I'm upset is that he just got too much authority and an idol status, I feel very light hearted criticizing Leo for example ,and he can choose to ban me, but Nahm has such loyal following that even with all what I say/have said people will still doubt you, I think this is wrong and no one is above criticism like that. 

I'm not against Nahm, if his words helped you I have no issue with that. but I had to speak out because I can be saving someone time/money/self-esteem ( form my own perspective ) by taking a bit of caution before seeking Nahm's - or anyone else for that matter- help. 

[Raptorsin7]

10 minutes ago, Happy Lizard said:

nope, I have to disagree here. 

it's not like people didn't speak. they did, but were given the Teflon pan treatment. Some didn't, like me, and the reason why I'm upset is that he just got too much authority and an idol status, I feel very light hearted criticizing Leo for example ,and he can choose to ban me, but Nahm has such loyal following that even with all what I say/have said people will still doubt you, I think this is wrong and no one is above criticism like that. 

I'm not against Nahm, if his words helped you I have no issue with that. but I had to speak out because I can be saving someone time/money/self-esteem ( form my own perspective ) by taking a bit of caution before seeking Nahm's - or anyone else for that matter- help. 

They gaslight you, and act like you are the crazy one for questioning Nahm.

In their minds Nahm is god, so they have so much invested in the conception that Nahm is honest and acts with integrity 

[puporing]

@Raptorsin7 I think it's good you're sharing your experience with others who may be in vulnerable places in their life looking for something, despite the possible backlash, which can be really difficult (victim blaming) and possibly make you gaslight yourself even. 

Vulnerable people need to know what can be out there, there are people who take advantage of this.  

[Vido]

I literally had a encounter with him where he kept asking or telling me that I didn't exist

I do feel it might be justified if he was not a mod anymore, banning him would be an overkill

 

[Raptorsin7]

13 minutes ago, puporing said:

@Raptorsin7 I think it's good you're sharing your experience with others who may be in vulnerable places in their life looking for something, despite the possible backlash, which can be really difficult (victim blaming) and possibly make you gaslight yourself even. 

Vulnerable people need to know what can be out there, there are people who take advantage of this.  

Thank you, I appreciate it.

I have been gaslit out of being critical of Nahm in the past.

But I'm in a different place now and someone needs to stand up to the constant gaslighting and deflection.

I welcome anyone to point out my dishonesty. And I will in turn point out yours (:

Edited February 23, 2022 by Raptorsin7

[Raptorsin7]

3 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

I was taken to the cleaners once by a fake guru and it was a valuable lesson.  I learned that I am 100 percent responsible for my own suffering and there is no “authority” out there that can save me.  The fakes can only take people who are in the marketplace looking for someone to take them.  If you are using the word “authority” and trying to figure out who is enlightened and who is not enlightened (a silly, meaningless task), then you are already on the hamster wheel running one’s little legs faster and faster to get to nowhere.  
 

There are definitely people out there with genuine insight and can help you.

But developing your intuition and learning to be discerning takes a lot of work.

Some of the wisest people I speak with now, I used to think were weird/unconscious 

[The0Self]

Quote

...his style of teaching nonduality simply does not align with what I am trying to teach about God-realization and the future direction of Actualized.org teachings about awakening.

Fair enough.

Though even for that endeavor, having someone around who can be as authentically direct as Nahm is perhaps a good thing, and hard to come by.

[Jodistrict]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

There are definitely people out there with genuine insight and can help you.

But developing your intuition and learning to be discerning takes a lot of work.

Some of the wisest people I speak with now, I used to think were weird/unconscious 

Neo-Advaita seems to be a treasure trove of sound bites for scammers.  Why not just assemble yourself a bag of chinese fortune cookies containg Neo-Advaita sound bites, and you will have yourself a low cost neo-advaita guru?  No need to pay thousands of dollars.  I hate to say that because I respect Hindu philosophy.  But Western culture makes a mess of everything.

[Loba]

1 minute ago, Happy Lizard said:

nope, I have to disagree here. 

That's okay, that's what discussions are for.

it's not like people didn't speak. they did, but were given the Teflon pan treatment. Some didn't, like me, and the reason why I'm upset is that he just got too much authority and an idol status, I feel very light hearted criticizing Leo for example ,and he can choose to ban me, but Nahm has such loyal following that even with all what I say/have said people will still doubt you, I think this is wrong and no one is above criticism like that. 

I only went through the thread once, but who spoke up?  I remember one person did.  And how did it go down, they weren't seen/heard?
It isn't just that he has a loyal following, it's also that he has helped so many people and so many people have had good interactions with him that it is only fair to try and understand what happened as best as possible.  I don't think he is above criticism, but I think people need to point how how they feel as it is happening and then go from there rather than holding it all in until someone is banned.  I also believe that because he can't speak for himself here - well he could if he wanted to, but most likely won't - that we have to be cautious about the facts and make sure we stick to them so that the reputation he earns is at least as fair as possible, and that involves seeing things from all angles.  I'm a firm believer, if someone has a history of being a certain type of person, to be cautious before making up my mind.  I feel like there is a lot of nuance with these things and I wouldn't want to create the wrong opinion of someone without knowing all the facts - and sometimes I'll have an opinion on something like - if in the future you see something wrong - like our conversation you felt comfortable pointing out what wasn't right for you - you should feel comfortable being able to do that in any circumstance.  It does worry me a bit that all these people felt this way, and so few said anything.  In this case - we also need to address why people felt like they could not be heard if they said something about a problem they were facing, that so many people had this one problem, and didn't speak up.  What is causing that kind of atmosphere, and how/what would you do to help facilitate change where people can feel heard to talk to someone upfront about an issue?  Because I am sure, since Nahm wanted to do teaching as a career that if he knew that this many people were having a hard time understanding him, he could change his approach - but since only a few spoke up, and many were okay with him - that isn't giving someone correct feedback to change.

I'm not against Nahm, if his words helped you I have no issue with that. but I had to speak out because I can be saving someone time/money/self-esteem ( form my own perspective ) by taking a bit of caution before seeking Nahm's - or anyone else for that matter- help. 

Agreed, and that's a good thing to do.  We should all be seeking to become our own authorities on certain subjects.

 

[Ananta]

16 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

The reason you feel the compulsion to check what I'm saying is likely because you lack integrity and ethics, and so empathize with dishonest folks like Nahm 

No, it's because you are saying you take responsibility, but you aren't. You paid him thousands in donations, BECAUSE YOU WANTED TO! You believed he would end your suffering. That was a story you told yourself.