Who is responsible for bad actions? Illusory me or Life (God)?

[happyhappy]

17 hours ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

Right. Thanks. Is there a way to verify this?

no need of spirituality to get this.

scientifically , nothing matters. we are some lucky  hominids living on a  dusty minute planet out of billions of galaxies, stars and planets. our course of action will not change much in the universe anyways. in fact, our entire human history ;let alone our lifetime is a second compared to the age of universe . 

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by happyhappy

[Muhammad Jawad]

6 minutes ago, happyhappy said:

no need of spirituality to get this.

scientifically , nothing matters. we are some lucky  hominids living on a  dusty minute planet out of billions of galaxies, stars and planets. our course of action will no change much in the universe anyways. in fact, our entire human history ;let alone our lifetime is a second compared to the age of universe .

You are right. True. Thanks

[GreenWoods]

18 hours ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

. If I am conscious that I am not this body-mind but God then there is no suffering during the downfalls of this game. But if I am un-conscious then I may suffer the downfalls. Right?

Just because you are conscious that You are God, doesn't mean that the character can't suffer anymore. God can keep imagining suffering.

Usually suffering will be a lot less if you are conscious of your true nature. But in terms of raw pain, it probably doesn't make much of a difference, unless you are in an extremely high state of consciousness. Immunity to pain comes mostly from some kind of mind mastery for example  from buddhist practices. That's not necessarily related to awakening. 

18 hours ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

I have a very noble image or concept of God in my mind and when I live my life through this perspective that I am God But when I do something bad then a thought arises that how a God can do this kind of bad action and then I get confused.

From the absolute perspective, God is doing absolutely everything, including every murder. 

From the relative perspective, it is upon you. Will you do evil things despite being conscious of Oneness and Love? Depends on your maturity and embodiment. 

18 hours ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

Ok, but is it right to take credit for all the good things I do, and when I do something wrong I just blame God that God is doing everything.

No lol. 

Take responsibility of what you do.

And if you want, be conscious that ultimately everything is done by God. But that isn't supposed to make you less responsible for what you do, but to make you better deal with what happens, and to help you surrender.

[Muhammad Jawad]

10 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

Just because you are conscious that You are God, doesn't mean that the character can't suffer anymore. God can keep imagining suffering.

True.

10 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

Usually suffering will be a lot less if you are conscious of your true nature. But in terms of raw pain, it probably doesn't make much of a difference, unless you are in an extremely high state of consciousness. Immunity to pain comes mostly from some kind of mind mastery for example  from buddhist practices. That's not necessarily related to awakening.

Right

13 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

From the absolute perspective, God is doing absolutely everything, including every murder. 

Right. Ok

13 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

From the relative perspective, it is upon you. Will you do evil things despite being conscious of Oneness and Love?

No

13 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

Depends on your maturity and embodiment. 

True

14 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

No lol. 

Take responsibility of what you do.

And if you want, be conscious that ultimately everything is done by God. But that isn't supposed to make you less responsible for what you do, but to make you better deal with what happens, and to help you surrender.

Ok. Right. Sure.

 

Thanks a lot for the help :-)

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, happyhappy said:

no need of spirituality to get this.

scientifically , nothing matters. we are some lucky  hominids living on a  dusty minute planet out of billions of galaxies, stars and planets. our course of action will not change much in the universe anyways. in fact, our entire human history ;let alone our lifetime is a second compared to the age of universe . 

 

❤ 

[axiom]

6 hours ago, GreenWoods said:

From the relative perspective, it is upon you. Will you do evil things despite being conscious of Oneness and Love? Depends on your maturity and embodiment. 

Take responsibility of what you do.

This is false. The body does what it does. Thoughts happen as they happen. There is nothing that can be done about it. "Taking responsibility" might happen, but it would not be from choice.

[GreenWoods]

31 minutes ago, axiom said:

This is false. The body does what it does. Thoughts happen as they happen. There is nothing that can be done about it. "Taking responsibility" might happen, but it would not be from choice.

You are right from the absolute perspective. But not from the relative.

From the relative, practical, illusionary dream POV, you have free will and are in control of your body and mind.

[axiom]

44 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

You are right from the absolute perspective. But not from the relative.

From the relative, practical, illusionary dream POV, you have free will and are in control of your body and mind.

I think it’s the other way around. We don’t know whether some type of “will” exists at the absolute level / God level, nor what that might look like.

We do however know for sure that at the relative level, free will is an illusion. You cannot control which thoughts you are going to have because your neurochemistry is a slave to the physical laws of cause and effect.

[SgtPepper]

14 hours ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

How a dead creation can act? How did creation get separated from God? As soon as we separate creation from God we define the boundaries of God and limit God.

It got 'separated' the moment God created, and the creation confused itself with more creation stuff instead of its source: God. I am not separating or limiting God. God is nothingness.

Creation separates itself from God, but it's not a real separation, it's a 'created' separation by the creation itself, because it uses creation (ie. thoughts, knowledge, physical reality) to do it.

Or in other words, God imagines and the imagination itself starts to take on an identity that is false, and then this identity creates evil because it does so from its false identity, not God identity which is all loving because it needs nothing. The false identity becomes prominent in the space of nothingness that is God, and the false identity takes on a life of its own (through the nothingness/Light of God), and so then does actions to benefit such false identity.

14 hours ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

How dead matter can come up with its own desire? If the creation is not dead then how is this alive? Do you think there are separate souls in all living beings?

It is alive through God and at the same time dead if it is not grounded (self-aware) in itself - God. That's why the dead (imagination) comes to life when it grounded in Truth.

14 hours ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

It seems and appears that there is an ego but in reality, the ego does not exist anywhere upon looking.

The ego can not be highly conscious become does not exist as a separate entity.

The ego can not make decisions because the ego does not exit.

I can not remember when I created my ego intentionally. 

 

This is True. Yet Your imagination takes on a life of its own through You. (even if it is not really life compared to eternal You). the concept of life is the result of your imagination taking off and building on itself to create an Ego.

You absolutely did create the ego because you created your parents and you created whatever was taught to you, which built up an elaborate sense of self. 

All of this stuff I am talking about is the imagination of God, being interpreted through the lenses of his imagination. If you are God, then you are Nothing. Yet You imagine 'sensations' 'thoughts' 'biological urges' and go get a drink of water, and say hello to your wife, and take the garbage out.

There's nothing wrong with the Creation You built. What's 'wrong' with creation via the imagined understanding is that we think we're people that need to protect ourselves and become god-like (so the thoughts try to become godlike) and so evil actions because the thoughts build up a false reality grounded in a thought, instead of God. 

 You write up this post because you imagined that there is someone you need to type to. but see, it's not the eternal You, because You is nothing, it is the thought/sense of you (imagined) that is driving (imagined) you to type (imagined) the post to me (imagined)

but don't confuse the imagination of God with actual God. 

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by SgtPepper

[GreenWoods]

1 hour ago, axiom said:

I think it’s the other way around. We don’t know whether some type of “will” exists at the absolute level / God level, nor what that might look like.

We do however know for sure that at the relative level, free will is an illusion. You cannot control which thoughts you are going to have because your neurochemistry is a slave to the physical laws of cause and effect.

Well I think we all agree that from the absolute perspective the illusory small self doesn't have free will.

And those who are God-realized usually agree that God is doing everything.

1 hour ago, axiom said:

We do however know for sure that at the relative level, free will is an illusion. You cannot control which thoughts you are going to have because your neurochemistry is a slave to the physical laws of cause and effect.

Really? I can.

Controlling every single thought is quite difficult, but controlling some thoughts is easy.

[axiom]

1 hour ago, GreenWoods said:Really? I can.

Controlling every single thought is quite difficult, but controlling some thoughts is easy.

Can you give an example of this?

[RMQualtrough]

This will explain it entirely.

[Muhammad Jawad]

11 hours ago, axiom said:

This is false. The body does what it does. Thoughts happen as they happen. There is nothing that can be done about it. "Taking responsibility" might happen, but it would not be from choice.

Seems Very true. I also feel like that.

10 hours ago, GreenWoods said:

You are right from the absolute perspective. But not from the relative.

From the relative, practical, illusionary dream POV, you have free will and are in control of your body and mind.

.....?

9 hours ago, axiom said:

I think it’s the other way around. We don’t know whether some type of “will” exists at the absolute level / God level, nor what that might look like.

We do however know for sure that at the relative level, free will is an illusion. You cannot control which thoughts you are going to have because your neurochemistry is a slave to the physical laws of cause and effect.

Again feel like a lot more authentic interpretation of reality.

9 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

but don't confuse the imagination of God with actual God. 

Right. Sure. Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation.

8 hours ago, GreenWoods said:

Well I think we all agree that from the absolute perspective the illusory small self doesn't have free will.

And those who are God-realized usually agree that God is doing everything.

Exactly

8 hours ago, GreenWoods said:

Really? I can.

Controlling every single thought is quite difficult, but controlling some thoughts is easy.

I have tried this experiment many times. And I saw it many times that I can not control which thought I am going to have.

4 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

This will explain it entirely.

Thanks for sharing this. :-) 

[GreenWoods]

10 hours ago, axiom said:

Can you give an example of this?

It is difficult to only have the thoughts "bird" and  ans not allowing any other thoughts, for 5 hours straight.

It is easy to think the thought "bird" at least 100 times within 5 hours.

3 hours ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

I have tried this experiment many times. And I saw it many times that I can not control which thought I am going to have.

Then that is due to a lack of mind mastery, not an inherent lack of free will.

It is difficult to control every single thought you are going to have, but controlling some shouldn't be that difficult.

[axiom]

5 hours ago, GreenWoods said:

It is difficult to only have the thought "bird" and not allowing any other thoughts, for 5 hours straight.

It is easy to think the thought "bird" at least 100 times within 5 hours.

Then that is due to a lack of mind mastery, not an inherent lack of free will.

It is difficult to control every single thought you are going to have, but controlling some shouldn't be that difficult.

It's not that you can control "some" thoughts. You can't control any thoughts.

It is impossible to choose how often you will think the thought "bird".

You might think that you are choosing to think the thought "bird", but notice that the sense of choosing is - again - only a thought.

All thoughts, all actions, everything that happens in the universe is wholly governed by (meta)physical processes already in motion, over which you have no control whatsoever.

Saying you can control these processes at all is to suggest you can manifest things independently of all the cause and effect relationships of the universe. You can't. Thoughts do not exist independently of cause and effect relationships - they are wholly subordinate to them, just like everything else. It is all in motion already.

You can verify this by trying to manifest an apple in your hand right now. If you find this tricky, maybe try to manifest just a slice of apple instead. Still no luck? There ya go.

Edited February 25, 2022 by axiom

[GreenWoods]

1 hour ago, axiom said:

It is impossible to choose how often you will think the thought "bird".

It's possible.

1 hour ago, axiom said:

You might think that you are choosing to think the thought "bird", but notice that the sense of choosing is - again - only a thought.

Therefore there is no free will and control from the absolute perspective. 

But from the dream perspective, there is.

1 hour ago, axiom said:

Saying you can control these processes at all is to suggest you can manifest things independently of all the cause and effect relationships of the universe. You can't. Thoughts do not exist independently of cause and effect relationships - they are wholly subordinate to them, just like everything else. It is all in motion already.

I don't think things are predetermined. 

1 hour ago, axiom said:

You can verify this by trying to manifest an apple in your hand right now. If you find this tricky, maybe try to manifest just a slice of apple instead. Still no luck? There ya go.

It's possible in lucid dreams. With enough mastery, it's also possible in this dream. 

[VictorB02]

On 2/21/2022 at 10:56 PM, Muhammad Jawad said:

Hello everyone!

I hope you all are doing good.

There is not any separate self. Then who is responsible for wrong/sinful (murder, rape, pornography, masturbation, etc...) actions?

For example, Something wrong and sinful occurs through my body, then a feeling of regret arises, then a thought arises that "don't worry "I" the separate self do not exist. That wrong act was done by "Life"."

Should I just let Life (God) do all kinds of wrong things using my body?

Waiting for the help.

Thanks

It's just your conditioning, and it's not personal.

That doesn't mean your conditioning can't be changed or upgraded though.

[Muhammad Jawad]

20 hours ago, GreenWoods said:

Then that is due to a lack of mind mastery, not an inherent lack of free will.

That's not the case. :-)

20 hours ago, GreenWoods said:

It is difficult to control every single thought you are going to have, but controlling some shouldn't be that difficult.

That's not the case. :-)

15 hours ago, axiom said:

It's not that you can control "some" thoughts. You can't control any thoughts.

It is impossible to choose how often you will think the thought "bird".

You might think that you are choosing to think the thought "bird", but notice that the sense of choosing is - again - only a thought.

All thoughts, all actions, everything that happens in the universe is wholly governed by (meta)physical processes already in motion, over which you have no control whatsoever.

Saying you can control these processes at all is to suggest you can manifest things independently of all the cause and effect relationships of the universe. You can't. Thoughts do not exist independently of cause and effect relationships - they are wholly subordinate to them, just like everything else. It is all in motion already.

True.

[Muhammad Jawad]

14 hours ago, VictorB02 said:

It's just your conditioning, and it's not personal.

That doesn't mean your conditioning can't be changed or upgraded though.

Right. Thanks for your input. :-)