Who is responsible for bad actions? Illusory me or Life (God)?

[Muhammad Jawad]

@VeganAwake Hi VeganAwake!

I hope you are doing well.

Can you please help me to understand the No-Self by answering the question I posted in my 1st post & provide me your perspective on this matter?

Waiting for your response.

Thanks

 

 

 

[Muhammad Jawad]

9 hours ago, IamYou said:

You claim there is just one awareness. Consequently you are that and thus responsible for everything.

Is my illusory separate self responsible for the actions (good/bad) performed by my body or is my Whole Self/awareness responsible for the actions (good/bad) performed by my body?  

[Explorer_42]

@Muhammad Jawad and who but yourself is looking for the shelf. 

What you're going through is probably the problem of "hand trying to grasp itself".

As for above question:

"Whole Self/awareness responsible for the actions (good/bad) performed by my body?  " - in simple terms this one is your answer.

[WokeBloke]

9 minutes ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

Is my illusory separate self responsible for the actions (good/bad) performed by my body or is my Whole Self/awareness responsible for the actions (good/bad) performed by my body?  

Only you are responsible for your actions. There is no separate self preforming your actions.

[Muhammad Jawad]

8 hours ago, Adodd said:

You as an ego still chooses to do things.

But what I have realized & heard & learned is that the existence of ego is just an illusion, in reality, the ego does not exist and the ego does not have the power to make choices because the ego is a bundle of thoughts and thoughts can not make their own choices.

8 hours ago, Adodd said:

If your talking about the Absolute Self you wouldn't be calling acts bad or sinful because those separations are biases of you as an ego.

So, in reality, from an absolute perspective, there is no good & bad?

8 hours ago, Adodd said:

YOU as an absolute isnt doing these deeds sure.

Then who is alive other than the absolute? According to my realization, there is only one Life. Absolute is the only one who is alive. How "I" as an ego can do these deeds? How a bundle of thoughts can perform deeds itself?

8 hours ago, Adodd said:

But you as an ego are so you as an ego should take responsibility for these things so you as an ego can make what you as an ego consider "good" actions.

But I am not able to find myself or my ego in my direct experience.

8 hours ago, Adodd said:

And you as an ego will reap the benefits.

How a bubble in a flowing river water can go into its own chosen direction and then reap the benefits? No matter how much a bubble tries to go into its own chosen direction, after all, it will fail will have to go with the flow of the river.

Am I not a bubble in a flowing river?

8 hours ago, Adodd said:

You as an ego not worrying about your "immoral"actions just because "there is no seperate self" will likely not bring you any of those benefits but instead make life, what you as an ego would call, "worse".

What if we let go of our ego and surrender to the flow? It will reduce the suffering of the bubble that is trying to go in the opposite direction of the river.

[Muhammad Jawad]

8 hours ago, RevoCulture said:

What happens when you question the existence of good and bad?  What if they dont exist in the way we have been accustomed to think? What if they are heavily rooted in the Abrahamic traditions? Or the biological and ego mind, duality.

What if there is only what is and it doesnt carry a value and more of a representation of possibility. Forces that create motion and are inextricably linked.

We are all going to have a preference of good and bad but is that the truest nature of existence, is it really good and bad.  should you praise the bad for allowoing the good to exist or condemn the good for allowing bad to exist.. These values are rooted in ego and biological narratives of preference.. they are real from that perspective.

Maybe both self and Self are present throughout as well.. 

 

Very True.

How do I get rid of suffering stemming from falling in making my life disciplined, virtuous, good? 

I spent my half-life to make my life like a saint, virtuous, good, disciplined but in the end, I always failed and now I have started to realize and feel like that I do not have any control and through spiritual seeking and by digging deeper I am learning, understanding & realizing that I do not have any choice because I do not exist as a separate self.

That's why I am having a lot of confusion & questions. So on this forum, I am just trying to know the perspective of other successfully realized Selves.

What do you guys think about this matter?

Should I just keep trying as an illusory separate self and keep failing and keep suffering due to that? Or is there any way to go beyond this suffering? 

[Muhammad Jawad]

5 hours ago, GreenWoods said:

Absolute perspective: You as God are doing everything, responsible for everything. 

relative perspective: You are a non-physical ego entity (ultimately an illusion but hey it's the relative perspective). This ego entity has free will and responsibility. Play the game and pretend you are that entity with free will and take responsibility for all your actions.

As a seeming bubble in flowing river water do you want me to keep pushing myself in the opposite direction of the river flowing and spend my whole life in the suffering of failure of not able able to go into the opposite direction of the river?  

[Muhammad Jawad]

31 minutes ago, Explorer_42 said:

@Muhammad Jawad and who but yourself is looking for the shelf. 

What you're going through is probably the problem of "hand trying to grasp itself".

As for above question:

"Whole Self/awareness responsible for the actions (good/bad) performed by my body?  " - in simple terms this one is your answer.

So that means there should not be any regret full thoughts to illusory separate self for those actions because it's all done by the Whole Self/Awareness?

30 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

Only you are responsible for your actions. There is no separate self preforming your actions.

Here by "you" do you mean consciousness/awareness? 

[WokeBloke]

1 minute ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

So that means there should not be any regret full thoughts to illusory separate self for those actions because it's all done by the Whole Self/Awareness?

Here by "you" do you mean consciousness/awareness? 

It's a reference to that which reads and responds to my post. Call it awareness or consciousness if you like.

[Muhammad Jawad]

1 minute ago, WokeBloke said:

It's a reference to that which reads and responds to my post. Call it awareness or consciousness if you like.

But that awareness is not doing anything or not being responsible for doing anything. That awareness is just is. What is, is awareness/consciousness seems like world due to ignorance.

No one is doing anything. Everything is just happening itself. There is not any central point of consciousness who decides to do or not to do anything.

According to this understanding, I should just try to do and attain good & disciplined life but in the end, if I face any failure I should not have any regret full thoughts or should not believe in these kinds of thoughts that can cause suffering because this universe, this world, my body are not salve of my mind. everything has to do their own thing and the mind can blame or take credit for these actions but can not control anything.

Right?

[WokeBloke]

7 minutes ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

But that awareness is not doing anything or not being responsible for doing anything. That awareness is just is. What is, is awareness/consciousness seems like world due to ignorance.

No one is doing anything. Everything is just happening itself. There is not any central point of consciousness who decides to do or not to do anything.

According to this understanding, I should just try to do and attain good & disciplined life but in the end, if I face any failure I should not have any regret full thoughts or should not believe in these kinds of thoughts that can cause suffering because this universe, this world, my body are not salve of my mind. everything has to do their own thing and the mind can blame or take credit for these actions but can not control anything.

Right?

Personally I would recommend listening to Sadhguru. Ultimately whether you think you are responsible for your actions or not you will be the one that suffers the consequences so it's best to take charge of your body and mind if you are capable. 

 

[Muhammad Jawad]

7 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

Personally I would recommend listening to Sadhguru. Ultimately whether you think you are responsible for your actions or not you will be the one that suffers the consequences so it's best to take charge of your body and mind if you are capable. 

 

I will surely watch this video.

But according to my understanding.

Yes, there can be consequences and suffering but there is no separate self, there is not a witness, experience, observer, or sufferer to suffer the consequences. Suffering knows itself.

Everything is a witness of itself, there is not a separate experiencer who is experiencing the experiences. experiences are aware of themselves.  

[WokeBloke]

3 minutes ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

I will surely watch this video.

But according to my understanding.

Yes, there can be consequences and suffering but there is no separate self, there is not a witness, experience, observer, or sufferer to suffer the consequences. Suffering knows itself.

Everything is a witness of itself, there is not a separate experiencer who is experiencing the experiences. experiences are aware of themselves.  

Grab your phone. Notice it is a part of your experience. Does your phone (the experience) see your phone or does something else see the phone? Keep in mind the phone doesn't have eyes.

[Muhammad Jawad]

8 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

Grab your phone. Notice it is a part of your experience. Does your phone (the experience) see your phone or does something else see the phone? Keep in mind the phone doesn't have eyes.

""I" am looking at a phone" is just a thought.

""I" am looking is also a thought.

"I am" is also a thought.

There is only "What is".

[WokeBloke]

@Muhammad Jawad What thinks I am? What uses the word I?

Edited February 23, 2022 by WokeBloke

[happyhappy]

1 hour ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

So, in reality, from an absolute perspective, there is no good & bad?

no!

[Muhammad Jawad]

7 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

@Muhammad Jawad What thinks I am? What uses the word I?

There is only that thought. There is no thinker of that thought.

6 minutes ago, happyhappy said:

no!

So it does not matter what actions a person performs in his life? 

[WokeBloke]

@Muhammad Jawad What is the source of thoughts? There can't be a creation without a creator isn't it? 

[Muhammad Jawad]

10 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

What is the source of thoughts?

Thought itself.

10 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

There can't be a creation without a creator isn't it?

Creation requires a Creator is just a belief, concept, thought.

 

I am Sorry actually I am not here to teach or promote any Idea. In fact, it's the opposite of that. I am here to learn & understand the same "No-Self" truth that I am trying to describe you.

 

No one can describe or prove this Idea. The only way to this is to look yourself in your direct experience.

 

The following website can help you to know and understand that fact:

Website: https://www.liberationunleashed.com/

Forum: https://www.liberationunleashed.com/nation   

[WokeBloke]

@Muhammad Jawad Prior to the thought being created it did not exist. How can that which does not exist create itself?