Who is responsible for bad actions? Illusory me or Life (God)?

[Muhammad Jawad]

Hello everyone!

I hope you all are doing good.

There is not any separate self. Then who is responsible for wrong/sinful (murder, rape, pornography, masturbation, etc...) actions?

For example, Something wrong and sinful occurs through my body, then a feeling of regret arises, then a thought arises that "don't worry "I" the separate self do not exist. That wrong act was done by "Life"."

Should I just let Life (God) do all kinds of wrong things using my body?

Waiting for the help.

Thanks

[BipolarGrowth]

Taking personal responsibility will likely improve your life whether it’s your fault or not. 

[Explorer_42]

Look at your hand and as yourself "who's moving this hand right now?" You. There's nobody else behind the curtain pulling the strings. Observe how Ego is trying to find justification for all unskilful actions. Own up to your actions. 

You might find Jordan Peterson a bit more useful at this stage than Leo. 

[Muhammad Jawad]

24 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Taking personal responsibility will likely improve your life whether it’s your fault or not.

How is it possible to take personal responsibility when there is not a separate personal self "I"?

 

[Muhammad Jawad]

12 minutes ago, Explorer_42 said:

Look at your hand and as yourself "who's moving this hand right now?" You. There's nobody else behind the curtain pulling the strings. Observe how Ego is trying to find justification for all unskilful actions. Own up to your actions. 

You might find Jordan Peterson a bit more useful at this stage than Leo. 

I can see the hand moving but can not find an "I" who is moving the hand. Yes, no one is pulling the strings behind the curtain. I can not find any ego. How can I be responsible for the wrong actions when "I" does not exist?

 

I am not sure which teachings you are pointing to. But what I have known till now is that "I" or "Me" is just a belief/story. There is not a separate entity in the body.   

[Explorer_42]

48 minutes ago, Muhammad Jawad said:

Should I just let Life (God) do all kinds of wrong things using my body?

This sentence shows that there's somebody doing something using your body. And on top of that you deem it as sinful. I'm a bit lost here. 

So :

1.who/what is doing the action ?

2.who/what deems it sinful

3.who/what is experiencing all of this

[Muhammad Jawad]

7 minutes ago, Explorer_42 said:

1.who/what is doing the action ?

I used to think that I do all kinds of actions. But according to non-duality teachings, there is not any separate "I". It's just an illusory belief. And that separate "I" is not responsible for anything because that "I" do not exist. Non Duality teaching says that there is only One Consciousness/Awareness/Life/God who is responsible for everything. 

12 minutes ago, Explorer_42 said:

2.who/what deems it sinful

There are just some judgmental thoughts based on past memories that appear in the field of consciousness labeling things good and bad.

14 minutes ago, Explorer_42 said:

3.who/what is experiencing all of this

 The experience itself experiencing all of the experience. 

[BipolarGrowth]

@Muhammad Jawad you take a shit in the middle of the carpet. Rather than saying, God took a shit in the middle of the carpet, therefore I don’t have to respond to this at all, you say, oh fuck, the relative appearance of I took a shit in the middle of the carpet. Perhaps the relative appearance of an I might be best served and best serve the relative appearance of others by cleaning up the shit. 
 

This is not rocket science. If you think it’s the Absolute doing everything which in turn makes responsibility obsolete, do an experiment of taking little to no responsibility in a relative sense and see if you’re more satisfied by taking little to no responsibility.

 

Edit: Also, there’s no separation or difference between the “illusory you” and “God/Life” if we want to be technical. There’s not even a singular thing. There’s not even a lack of a singular thing. There are no labels that truly work for the “Absolute”. There are no classifications for it, even the classification that there are no classifications for it. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by BipolarGrowth

[Muhammad Jawad]

34 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

you take a shit in the middle of the carpet. Rather than saying, God took a shit in the middle of the carpet, therefore I don’t have to respond to this at all,

Sorry, I do not understand what you mean.

34 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

oh fuck, the relative appearance of I took a shit in the middle of the carpet. Perhaps the relative appearance of an I might be best served and best serve the relative appearance of others by cleaning up the shit. 

I am sorry still not able to understand what you are pointing toward.

35 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

If you think it’s the Absolute doing everything which in turn makes responsibility obsolete

I do not think that the Absolute doing everything. I am trying to learn & understand and realize the truth. I have always used to think that I am responsible for everything I do but now when I am going through all of the self inquiries, contemplations, readings, meditations, etc I am getting confused day by day and there are a lot of questions arising in this process.

That thread is one of those questions. I am not teaching or telling something. I am asking for help to understand the concept of no separate self.

[Explorer_42]

The Truth is you are responsible for your actions, and should not justify "sinful" things with no-duality.

If you shit on the carpet, you can say that you've imagined shitting on the carpet. But in your direct experience there's now smelly shit on the carpet an you're responsible for it. 

If you take a needle and poke your finger, there's nothing external that made it happen. The relative truth is that you've poked your finger and now you're bleeding. You did it to yourself, nobody else, and you're responsible for this situation.

Maybe watch "zen devilry" video from Leo. It might clarify what you're struggling with.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Explorer_42

[Muhammad Jawad]

8 hours ago, Explorer_42 said:

The Truth is you are responsible for your actions, and should not justify "sinful" things with no-duality.

If you shit on the carpet, you can say that you've imagined shitting on the carpet. But in your direct experience there's now smelly shit on the carpet an you're responsible for it. 

If you take a needle and poke your finger, there's nothing external that made it happen. The relative truth is that you've poked your finger and now you're bleeding. You did it to yourself, nobody else, and you're responsible for this situation.

Maybe watch "zen devilry" video from Leo. It might clarify what you're struggling with.

Is the word "you" responsible for the actions arising my consciousness? 

[Guru Fat Bastard]

You do exist. In fact, it's the one thing you can know with absolute certainty. Just look at the simple fact that you have to exist in the first place in order to say "I do not exist". It's fucking madness. The only "mistake" is that you have identified yourself to be something you're not.

The other mistake is watching a couple of non duality YT vids of some people who should absolutely not be teaching anything, have little to no understanding themselves, may have had a couple of  spiritual "experiences", and then believing what they say is true. If their "highest so called "teaching" is "there's nothing to realize and no one to realize it" then you can pretty much bet they're not what they say they are. At best,"no self" or "no you/I" only means what has already been said. And that is, you are not what you have mistakenly taken yourself to be. The whole spiritual endeavor is to realize, not speculate or simply believe, not only what you are not, but what you or what you refer to as  "I"  really is.
If you're going to read and watch vids of spiritual teachers/teachings, make sure you're accessing legitimately recognized texts and teachers.  They will have extensive  wisdom and knowledge of the subject matter and practices, and also be able to point you to what you are. Well beyond  simply  "there's no you","you don't exist" and no one to do anything".  A six-year-old could watch a vid on that, and then go around preaching their new found "knowledge" to their little kindergarten friends all day long, lol.  Ridiculous.

So there you go. You do exist, you are responsible, and there is something to experientially  (not believe) , realize.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Guru Fat Bastard

[VeganAwake]

42 minutes ago, Guru Fat Bastard said:

Just look at the simple fact that you have to exist in the first place in order to say "I do not exist". It's fucking madness. The only "mistake" is that you have identified yourself to be something you're not.

That's not a fact.... it actually reveals how tricky or sneaky the illusion of self actually is. 

That which proclaims "I exist" or "I do not exist" stem from the very same illusion of self.

There isn't a real you to identify or disidentify in the first place.... (that's the cosmic joke)

There isn't a higher self or lower self, that's literally what not two or non-duality is pointing to. It's just been heavily misunderstood because the illusory self centered energy seems so real.

It can't conceive of its own unreality... the illusion of self will always try to identify as at least something.

❤ 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IamYou]

You claim there is just one awareness. Consequently you are that and thus responsible for everything.

[Guru Fat Bastard]

1 hour ago, VeganAwake said:

That's not a fact.... it actually reveals how tricky or sneaky the illusion of self actually is. 

That which proclaims "I exist" or "I do not exist" stem from the very same illusion of self.

There isn't a real you to identify or disidentify in the first place.... (that's the cosmic joke)

There isn't a higher self or lower self, that's literally what not two or non-duality is pointing to. It's just been heavily misunderstood because the illusory self centered energy seems so real.

It can't conceive of its own unreality... the illusion of self will always try to identify as at least something.

❤ 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Duly noted.?
But, this is not new information that hasn't already been seen through. The only "apparent" difference is  "I"  do not  have an obsessive problem with using  such terms as "I" "self","you" or even "no self" non-self, God, Brahman, Reality or any of the other countless conceptual names given to "That" or "This"  etc., etc., , to communicate. Some are sensitive to these linguistic matters, and that is acknowledged. It is also recognized that not "everyone" can be pleased all the time. It is what it is and wasting time debating such irrelevant matters is, well, a waste of time.

To each their own.?

Edited February 22, 2022 by Guru Fat Bastard

[Adodd]

15 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Taking personal responsibility will likely improve your life whether it’s your fault or not. 

This.

@Muhammad Jawad

ALSO. You as an ego still chooses to do things. You as an ego is creating a seperation between good and bad acts. If your talking about the Absolute Self you wouldn't be calling acts bad or sinful because those separations are biases of you as an ego. YOU as an absolute isnt doing these deeds sure. But you as an ego are so you as an ego should take responsibility for these things so you as an ego can make what you as an ego consider "good" actions. And you as an ego will reap the benefits.

You as an ego not worrying about your "immoral"actions just because "there is no seperate self" will likely not bring you any of those benefits but instead make life, what you as an ego would call, "worse".

✌

Edited February 22, 2022 by Adodd

[RevoCulture]

What happens when you question the existence of good and bad?  What if they dont exist in the way we have been accustomed to think? What if they are heavily rooted in the Abrahamic traditions? Or the biological and ego mind, duality.

What if there is only what is and it doesnt carry a value and more of a representation of possibility. Forces that create motion and are inextricably linked.

We are all going to have a preference of good and bad but is that the truest nature of existence, is it really good and bad.  should you praise the bad for allowoing the good to exist or condemn the good for allowing bad to exist.. These values are rooted in ego and biological narratives of preference.. they are real from that perspective.

Maybe both self and Self are present throughout as well.. 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by RevoCulture

[VeganAwake]

58 minutes ago, Guru Fat Bastard said:

Duly noted.?
But, this is not new information that hasn't already been seen through. The only "apparent" difference is  "I"  do not  have an obsessive problem with using  such terms as "I" "self","you" or even "no self" non-self, God, Brahman, Reality or any of the other countless conceptual names given to "That" or "This"  etc., etc., , to communicate. Some are sensitive to these linguistic matters, and that is acknowledged. It is also recognized that not "everyone" can be pleased all the time. It is what it is and wasting time debating such irrelevant matters is, well, a waste of time.

To each their own.?

I know what you mean ❤ you were a listening ear for me so I try and pay it forward.

During the apparent enlightenment experience here, there was an attempt by the sense of self or ego which had been recognized to be unreal to start identifying as a higher self or as God or as everything.

But this ego's game of identification had already been seen through. 

It literally couldn't reidentify as this or that because it was so clearly recognized to be unreal from the start.

It's freedom but not for someone or something.

❤ 

 

 

[GreenWoods]

Absolute perspective: You as God are doing everything, responsible for everything. 

relative perspective: You are a non-physical ego entity (ultimately an illusion but hey it's the relative perspective). This ego entity has free will and responsibility. Play the game and pretend you are that entity with free will and take responsibility for all your actions.

[Muhammad Jawad]

10 hours ago, Guru Fat Bastard said:

You do exist. In fact, it's the one thing you can know with absolute certainty. Just look at the simple fact that you have to exist in the first place in order to say "I do not exist". It's fucking madness. The only "mistake" is that you have identified yourself to be something you're not.

The other mistake is watching a couple of non duality YT vids of some people who should absolutely not be teaching anything, have little to no understanding themselves, may have had a couple of  spiritual "experiences", and then believing what they say is true. If their "highest so called "teaching" is "there's nothing to realize and no one to realize it" then you can pretty much bet they're not what they say they are. At best,"no self" or "no you/I" only means what has already been said. And that is, you are not what you have mistakenly taken yourself to be. The whole spiritual endeavor is to realize, not speculate or simply believe, not only what you are not, but what you or what you refer to as  "I"  really is.
If you're going to read and watch vids of spiritual teachers/teachings, make sure you're accessing legitimately recognized texts and teachers.  They will have extensive  wisdom and knowledge of the subject matter and practices, and also be able to point you to what you are. Well beyond  simply  "there's no you","you don't exist" and no one to do anything".  A six-year-old could watch a vid on that, and then go around preaching their new found "knowledge" to their little kindergarten friends all day long, lol.  Ridiculous.

So there you go. You do exist, you are responsible, and there is something to experientially  (not believe) , realize.

Then why I can not find myself in my direct experience?