Thinking

[axiom]

14 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

@axiom I explicitly claim to not be my thoughts. I am no thought. I am just claiming that I generate my thoughts. Brain activity is what the functioning of consciousness looks like when examined by itself. You don't consciously control your brain but ultimately you are responsible for everything your brain does.

Then I think the confusion here may simply be semantics.

I would not personally say you are "responsible" for something that you do not originate.

Are you responsible for the clouds in the sky? Same thing. Thoughts are happening, and clouds in the sky are happening. You are witnessing both, but you are not responsible for either.

Edited February 22, 2022 by axiom

[Breakingthewall]

22 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

By suggesting that thoughts bring themselves into existence you are suggesting that something that does not exist gives birth to itself.

Exactly, i speak from the perspective that everything is a thought, the pinch, the arm and also the pain. if thought ceases completely there is nothing left, the whole reality is a thought in your mind.

if we speak from the perspective of verbal thought, the voice of your mind, that is different. the voice of your mind occurs because since you were a child you have become accustomed to defining reality and yourself from what others have said, verbally or in writing. so when no one talks to you, you feel insecure, with nothing to hold on, like vertigo, so you talk to yourself

[WokeBloke]

39 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

@WokeBloke thinking is occurring, and that's not being denied.  There's just no 'me' (separate me) who's 'doing it'.  

It's a language thing.   When you use a knife to cut a pizza, you could say, 'the knife cut the pizza'.. but ask yourself.. did the knife 'do that'?  

Just because the knife 'does things', like 'cut pizza', does not mean that 'the knife' caused itself to cut the pizza. 

 

What do you identify as?

[Mason Riggle]

@WokeBloke "I have no other self than the totality of things of which I am aware." - Alan Watts

I am all of it. There is no separate 'me'. 

 

[WokeBloke]

 

44 minutes ago, axiom said:

Then I think the confusion here may simply be semantics.

I would not personally say you are "responsible" for something that you do not originate.

Are you responsible for the clouds in the sky? Same thing. Thoughts are happening, and clouds in the sky are happening. You are witnessing both, but you are not responsible for either.

Technically speaking the cloud in the sky that you see is just an experience that you are generating within yourself. You are responsible for generating that experience.

[axiom]

1 minute ago, WokeBloke said:

Technically speaking the cloud in the sky that you see is just an experience that you are generating within yourself. You are responsible for generating that experience.

Yes, agreed.

[axiom]

7 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

What do you identify as?

Good question. The temptation is to say "I identify as the watcher", but only because I don't want to say "I identify as a human". That would just spoil the illusion that you're talking to an enlightened being

[Wilhelm44]

@axiom   "Everything is causing everything... yes. Unlike Leo, I think even God's imaginings are deterministic in nature."

If everything is causing everything, doesn't the word 'deterministic' kind of collapse on itself ? 

[WokeBloke]

5 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

@axiom   "Everything is causing everything... yes. Unlike Leo, I think even God's imaginings are deterministic in nature."

If everything is causing everything, doesn't the word 'deterministic' kind of collapse on itself ? 

Only the source of creation determines what happens. It is deterministic by nature in my view.

[Mason Riggle]

9 minutes ago, Wilhelm44 said:

If everything is causing everything, doesn't the word 'deterministic' kind of collapse on itself ? 

Not really.. 'deterministic' is just a description of how reality seems to be occurring.  How hard a hammer hits a nail determines how far it will be driven into the board.. it's 'deterministic'... it's just that what 'determines' any 'relative' part of they system, is always 'everything which is not that relative part'.

I am DETERMINED by 'that which is not me'.. even though the distinction between 'me' and 'that which is not me' is relative and arbitrary.   

I am only defined in terms of 'that which is not me'.  

What is the 'outside' of a cup? Well, it's everything that's not the inside.  Outside is 'determined' by 'that which is not the outside'. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Mason Riggle

[Wilhelm44]

@WokeBloke    @Mason Riggle    Thank you

[Mason Riggle]

@Wilhelm44 Not a problem.