Why do progressive cities fail?

[RamBam]

A year ago I took a road trip to Los Angeles. While there I saw a number of rainbow flags & signs saying "No Human Is Illegal.' Waking along the beach there was a beautiful mural of diverse faces and a caption that read "We are all one!" And I agree whole heartedly, we are all one. But the actual material conditions of the city did not reflect the ideals they purported. There were homeless encampments on the side walk next to multi-million dollar homes. I even saw one homeless man holding a sign that said "God is Love."

On my drive home I stopped in Oklahoma City. Everyone lived in ~approximately~ equal sized houses. I ate dinner at an Indian restaurant, the people eating there were about equally white, black, and hispanic. There were some homeless people downtown, a lot of them were in line to get food from the Catholic Church. 

The place I think of as being bigoted was more loving and equal than the place I think of as being progressive. Why do political structures founded on progressivism fail to materialize their idealism? 

[Apparition of Jack]

The problem isn’t progressivism, the problem is inequality. LA is one of the most unequal cities on earth, so no wonder there is so much urban decay.

[PurpleTree]

i guess they're often "too nice" for their own good and get taken advantage of

also they're not great with money often times

maybe they're less structured

and there are many people with issues and mental illnesses (look how many are medicated etc.) 

a guy once said lefties progressives etc. are more creative, great at coming up with ideas and companies but not great at running them, conservatives are better at running those companies efficiently (i actually don't know if it's true but it sounds good enough)

[RamBam]

@Apparition of Jack How could it be made more equal?

 

[Leo Gura]

LA isn't failing. What are you smoking?

Homeless in LA exist because the weather is nice, because house prices are crazy (from success), and because of capitalism.

California is the most successful state by far. It could be its own country it's so successful.

What's failing is West Virginia & Alabama.

[Hardkill]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

LA isn't failing. What are you smoking?

Homeless in LA exist because the weather is nice, because house prices are crazy (from success), and because of capitalism.

California is the most successful state by far. It could be its own country it's so successful.

What's failing is West Virginia & Alabama.

When do you think West Virginia and Alabama will become a lot more urbanized and have a lot more educated folk?

[RamBam]

@Leo Gura I should have been more specific in what I mean by "fail." Yes, California has led technological development for the last decade. What they have failed at is to reflect their egalitarian social values in the actual social hierarchy. Immigrants are not welcomed as equal citizens, they form a pseudo-slave underclass. Most people in LA do not spend their time in love and harmony. No, they are stuck in traffic or in line at Starbucks. I understand the perspective in which Silicon Valley has been a success. It is a place where the most intelligent forward thinking people design the future of this planet. What they have failed to do is create a social structure in which people are relatively economically equal. 

[RamBam]

@Hardkill When the people from California move there. lol 

[Hardkill]

10 minutes ago, RamBam said:

@Hardkill When the people from California move there. lol 

I don’t think that that is likely to ever happen in large enough quantities.

[RamBam]

@Hardkill

Nor do I. I don't think it is as simple as "learn to code." These people are being left behind. Now, I don't think the world should stop evolving just because not everyone is going to make the cut. For example: I don't think we should not develop self driving trucks just because it is going cost truckers their jobs, nor should we prop up the coal industry so that coal miners still have jobs. I just want to point out how hypocritical it is for this elitist class to advocate for "human compassion and equity" while simultaneously participating in the pauperization of millions of people.  

Edited February 22, 2022 by RamBam
mistake

[Willie]

[RamBam]

@Leo Gura

"Show a level of respect & humility. Demonstrate kindness, friendliness, and compassion towards fellow members.

Show a willingness to learn and consider multiple points of view, rather than only pushing your own."

--You(me)

"LA isn't failing. What are you smoking?"

--Also You(me)

Edited February 22, 2022 by RamBam

[b_woo]

7 hours ago, RamBam said:

@Leo Gura

"Show a level of respect & humility. Demonstrate kindness, friendliness, and compassion towards fellow members.

Show a willingness to learn and consider multiple points of view, rather than only pushing your own."

--You(me)

"LA isn't failing. What are you smoking?"

--Also You(me)

Hahaha, so good! I've noticed this hypocrisy a fair bit.

[Girzo]

@Willie And? 400 000 Texans moved to California in that time. Both of these states have huge populations so those numbers are like nothing in 10 years scale.

California is still growing in population every year but it's slowing, which is good, because there's a limit to how many people can a patch of land support. Everything when mature stops growing. You know what doesn't stop its growth? Cancer.

[Godhead]

38 minutes ago, Girzo said:

400 000 Texans moved to California in that time. Both of these states have huge populations so those numbers are like nothing in 10 years scale.

Adjusted for the fact that Cali has a 25% bigger population, there's literally no difference.

[vizual]

LA is the home of failed musicians, actors, artists, painters, directors, comedians, writers, producers etc. I can guarantee you that most of the homeless people in LA fall into that category. So when they fail of becoming extremely succesful they go to the other extreme of saying that nothing matters, that it's all one, all peace and love etc. It's a big ego coping mechanism to deal with the extreme pain of total failure. LA is really a place of these extremes, you either become very succesful, or become a total fuck up and deal with the consequences. Whether that's a good or a bad thing is up to you to decide. The whole spirituality thing in LA is basically one big collective coping mechanism for failure. But the extremely succesful people also had to sacrifice a lot of their own dignity and self worth, probably, to get where they have ended up.

I think a lot of succesful people end up leaving LA is because they are tired of playing the fake Hollywood game. They want something more real and down to earth after a while. It's not just the outrageous housing prices and taxes that are driving people away.

[StarStruck]

Cali is one of the most prosperous states with most tax revenue. Cut back on the weed bro. The problem is wealth inequality. 

[Dabidoe]

Failed is a stretch but homelessness is out of control in SF & LA. There is a lot of suffering and despair that make a lot of initiatives fall flat.

The real problem is governance that refuses to address the problem for reasons of supposed "compassion" that conveniently take them off the hook from actually putting in the work. It's a disservice to the homeless and the depth of their problems to simply reduce the complex problem to "affordable housing" which is only one factor. There are plenty of people who've fallen on hard times and can bounce back with affordable housing and job opportunities but it's silly to think that will solve the problem when billions of dollars have been wasted on such programs.

 You can't afford affordable housing if you don't have a way to make money because you've been out of the work force too long, suffer from hopelessness, addiction and mental illness stuck living on the streets.

Conservatives want to "sweep" them away, Liberals want to ignore the problem with bullshit half measures. Not enough people are trying to solve the root problem which is get these people some real help, and give them a path to a positive future. 

[Leo Gura]

16 hours ago, RamBam said:

Yes, California has led technological development for the last decade.

For the last 60 years.

Quote

What they have failed at is to reflect their egalitarian social values in the actual social hierarchy.

Well, California alone cannot solve the problems of capitalism.

California isn't pure Green, it's more like Orange-Green.

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Immigrants are not welcomed as equal citizens, they form a pseudo-slave underclass.

Relative to other states immigrants are much more welcome in Cali. Cali literally has safe harbor cities.

Of course under capitalism immigrants are not going to be treated fairly economically. But then again, they are still much better off in Cali than in Mexico and Central America.

Quote

Most people in LA do not spend their time in love and harmony.

Yeah, well, LA is a very Orange-Green town. More Orange than Green. If you want more hippie Green vibes, check out Oregon.

[Yali]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

LA

 

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Oregon

How would you type Seattle? @Leo Gura