Giving Other's Advice

[PepperBlossoms]

How do you handle this topic?

For a while, I had the tendency to tell people stuff without them even asking for it and found that I was very inconsiderate of their feelings and do not want to be like that anymore and am embarrassed that I did that.

If you come across something that has been helpful for you and could be helpful for another person, do you tell them or do you just appreciate that it helped you and keep it to yourself?

There is trying to help others and trying to change them and we may think - if I changed them, that could be helpful.  But, is it my place to do that and how would I like it if people kept on giving me unasked for advice and kept on trying to change me and basically say that everything about me was unacceptable?

I guess if the relationship is where the other person keeps on trying to change you over and over again, maybe you don't want that relationship and you may find that you and the other person keep on judging each other.  If the relationship is where you can have fun and every once in a while comment on things, that is okay?  I really don't know!!! This is a gray area that I haven't had much practice.

Like, a therapist I can imagine has to walk a VERY fine line as they do not want to insult their client but also the client wants to heal/grow.  A teacher basically gives students advice indirectly when they grade the papers.  A sports coach gives advice.  Some jobs are for the purpose of giving you advice.

There is the line where you are complimenting all the time, there is the line where you say nothing, where you just be you, where you say whatever you want whenever you want, never suggest or comment on anything about them unless they ask for it, only comment on stuff that is a direct threat to your wellbeing, do you not say anything even if they ask for advice, etc.

We could find a website, book, song, perspective, food, workout, etc. that we like and want to share it with others but - look - we only have so much time and all the books/movie/whatever recommendations we get, we can't actually do all of them.  Some of the recommendations that I got I really liked, some I didn't, and some I just didn't have time to do.

I also see there are different ways of sharing stuff like - Oh I really liked this book and you may like it too.  Or, I came across this info and was thinking about your situation and thought you may benefit from it.  Or, oh I've been reading this book on xyz (but don't say anything about them liking it and only comment more if they say they want to read it too) - but then, that could be a sneaky way of trying to change someone.

I used to think that I needed to change people to be more like me but I don't really want to do that anymore so I am scared of intentionally trying to do that and ahh.  Like, even posting my thoughts on actualized, although I could do it to help me, it could also be to help others - but then am I changing them and is that bad and ahhh this is a weird topic.

I guess I've felt hurt when it seemed people kept on wanting to change me.  I guess there are lots of ways to bond with people and just exploring those ways can be helpful.

Edited February 21, 2022 by PepperBlossoms

[PepperBlossoms]

The dentist is trying to change your teeth.  The doctor your health.  The physical therapist your pain and movement.  The interior designer your house.  The plumber your toilet.  The pesticides your bug situation.  The advertisements your focus and wants.  The religion your belief system.  The politicians your law.  The movie/book/drugs/music your interpretation of reality.  The news may try to change your opinions/focus/concerns.

Change is good/bad/helpful/hurtful/different/new/old/whatever.

It is like stuff is offering the service of changing you for its own survival or it is intentionally changing you for its own survival.

It is a weird notion of how we have to change to survive (where we change enough to keep something the same/going).

Edited February 21, 2022 by PepperBlossoms

[PepperBlossoms]

Giving Advice Spectrums:

1 - Give advise without asking; inconsiderate of feelings; mean/rude; does not listen to feedback of receiver; keeps on speaking even if receiver is having struggle with it

2 - Gives advice in rude way and then apologizes for method used

3 - Considerate of feelings; trying to be helpful/caring/pragmatic/insightful; listens and works together

4 - Adapts/modifies advice based on feedback from receiver

5 - So considerate of feelings that advice is never given and everything the other person says is agreed on

I would say that #3 & #4 is probably optimal but sometimes one will have to use one of the other methods.  

Edited February 22, 2022 by PepperBlossoms

[Vincent S]

Thank you so much for sharing this. I deeply appreciate it. I have been in the same trap, and I can tell you: It was a rude awakening to realize what I was actually doing. Honestly, its such a freedom of not really having to care about "fixing" others. Everyone has their own perfect compass within them. Whenever they get lost somewhere, they can always use it.
Sometimes we/they get so lost that it hurts, but hey, that's a part of the learning process. And once they choose the right way back, they will attract whatever they need to help them along the journey. But at the end of the day: Its a lonely inward journey.

Trusting in the Universe, and Trusting God is the Ultimate guidance. Its like moving towards the sun. It will burn you alive once you are close enough.

 

[Mohammad]

Good opinions.

Also this might help and give you some good insights:

 

[PepperBlossoms]

@Vincent S You are welcome.  I am glad that it was of help!

@Mohammad Nice video.  Yeah it does seem to be a trap to pick a side and defend it vigorously as that makes it harder to explore the other side.  But I can see that it is impossible to pick zero sides too - I can say, I will pick the side of not picking any side so as to explore all sides - but that too is a side ha.

Basically picking a side is like picking a tribe, a mascot, a team to be part of and it becomes us vs them and it is then like a football game where we are rooting for the us when if we took a step back, we may not really care which team won. 

On some topics -  I guess I pick the side where I won't know/understand no matter how many studies I look at and how do I really know who to trust and that I am open to all sides being right/wrong - - but again, that is picking a side too.........  I guess I could back off of that as well and say that there are benefits and problems with not accepting evidence as well as accepting it.

I guess not picking sides too strongly though could be an easier side to work with that may not get as upset, sensitive, reactive because it has nothing to defend, agree, disagree, etc.

But I guess we also have to pick sides in some cases for survival reasons and just a function of being alive - like picking - okay I pick this food over that food or this activity over that activity or this shirt over that shirt or this book over that book or this job over that job.... You kinda have to pick something as being has to exist as something otherwise there is nothing to be/experience.

Edited February 23, 2022 by PepperBlossoms

[Mohammad]

@PepperBlossoms I agree.

I think as long as you keep an open mind, its ok to pick sides. You just have to have a constant "checking mechanism" in your mind to be able to change your mind when your direct experience and reason tell you to do so.

Picking sides has always been vey hard for me. It's both a blessing and curse at the same time.

[KoryKat]

I am careful to not position it against them personally...

Like i might discuss how i feel about something that people generally do that bothers me (they see themselves in the context)

 

It helps to get them to say what they want, and show them that they want the answer you provide... What ive noticed buttering me up like magic, is somebody describing my problem accurately, like I get that feeling of being understood , and then it doesnt matrer what advice they suggest, because they see me truly, and im open to listening when i feel they get me

 

Can ask them if they are open to feedback straight up.... And then hesitate like "nahhh everybody hates criticism" and they might be say they can handle it, THEN GENTLY test the waters...

 

98% of ppl cant handle criticism, and half of them will lie that they can... Dont take the gloves off and actually give people harsh brutal honesty , unless they specifically request it (like me) 

Also , you cant go wrong with the Rapport-Building technique , repeating accurate understanding to their satisfaction... People get juiced up hearing somebody "get them" 

[RobertZ]

Yeah @KoryKat, build rapport and gently test any feedback.

The point about rapport (e.g., friendly small talk, or expressions of empathy) can support collaborative decision-making. Great advice is often a kind of collaboration. The person receiving the advice makes significant decisions, and the person who provides advice gives information, suggestions, or assistance along the way.
 

Who is the “advice” about? Of course, advice may be some kind of exchange—but upon whom is the advice really centred? 

Let’s take the example of giving advice about possible options. I might know more about possible options in a given situation than the person I am advising—but that person is probably an expert on his/her facts. So, I can say, ‘You could do. X, Y, or Z;’ but advice centred on the person receiving advice might involve exploring other options. An ultimatum like, ‘invest in Bitcoin with me, or get lost,’ is probably not great advice. As the old saying goes, “Don’t ask a seller about buying.” Lol. 
 

Another aspect of advice is criteria. How does a person decide what decision to take? Usually, perceptions of values are based on personal circumstances. So, I might propose values to consider (in giving advice), but the traditional advice is, ‘Advise on values through example, and then give only requested explanations.’ The great advisor listens to people’s motivations. For example, I was chit-chatting with someone about my life-hopes, and he bluntly said, ‘Hope is stupid wishful thinking. You should have goals and objectives—not hope.’ I was like, ‘Okay, I can see how you might interpret the word hope.’ Telling someone that their values are stupid is probably not a great way to give advice. 

Then there is advice about practical steps to achieve decisions based on values. Here is where advisors can really shine! If the person receiving advice participated in exploring possible options, and discussed how their values lead them to a specific decision, then how-to advice or assistance may find a grateful ear.

Edited February 24, 2022 by RobertZ

[Raptorsin7]

@PepperBlossoms I think the best way to help people is to come from a place of harmony and love. Harmony is a frequency that can be tuned into and so if you are living from a place of harmony and speak from that place when you try to help then good things will happen imo.

The best advice isn't about what's said, it's about how well you can share your own harmonious energy with the person you are trying to help.

 

[PepperBlossoms]

20 hours ago, Mohammad said:

@PepperBlossoms I agree.

I think as long as you keep an open mind, its ok to pick sides. You just have to have a constant "checking mechanism" in your mind to be able to change your mind when your direct experience and reason tell you to do so.

Picking sides has always been vey hard for me. It's both a blessing and curse at the same time.

@Mohammad Agree as well!

8 hours ago, KoryKat said:

I am careful to not position it against them personally...

Like i might discuss how i feel about something that people generally do that bothers me (they see themselves in the context)

 

It helps to get them to say what they want, and show them that they want the answer you provide...

@KoryKat The indirect thing is really weird but I have done it too and I am still not sure about if I like doing it or not.  The person could interpret it differently but also it could be less threatening to be indirect.  It would be optimal to just be direct but I can see that we can feel that, oh I can't do that - but then it is like, well why am I saying that I can't? 

8 hours ago, KoryKat said:

98% of ppl cant handle criticism, and half of them will lie that they can... Dont take the gloves off and actually give people harsh brutal honesty , unless they specifically request it (like me) 

I've been telling myself that I want to be less sensitive and want the feedback but also I've found that I will still react to it... it is a work in progress!!  But.. even if I am reacting to it, I will still be processing it and it often does help and I can integrate it- it just takes time, as do many self changes.  I guess sometimes reacting to it isn't necessarily bad because hey, we are getting the message and taking it seriously - and since we are taking it seriously, we may think about it for awhile and long enough to try to understand what their message really meant.

6 hours ago, RobertZ said:

Another aspect of advice is criteria. How does a person decide what decision to take? Usually, perceptions of values are based on personal circumstances. So, I might propose values to consider (in giving advice), but the traditional advice is, ‘Advise on values through example, and then give only requested explanations.’ The great advisor listens to people’s motivations. For example, I was chit-chatting with someone about my life-hopes, and he bluntly said, ‘Hope is stupid wishful thinking. You should have goals and objectives—not hope.’ I was like, ‘Okay, I can see how you might interpret the word hope.’ Telling someone that their values are stupid is probably not a great way to give advice. 

Then there is advice about practical steps to achieve decisions based on values. Here is where advisors can really shine! If the person receiving advice participated in exploring possible options, and discussed how their values lead them to a specific decision, then how-to advice or assistance may find a grateful ear.

@RobertZ Ah yeah I can see that telling someone their motivation/idea/value is "stupid" can feel hurtful and make the listener not want to listen/participate anymore.  I can see that many perspectives have some degree of truth and value in it.  

Interesting point on making decisions based on values.  I've experienced cognitive dissonance where the action went against the value and can see how much values can lead us toward/against doing something.

6 hours ago, modmyth said:

There are many things to take into account. For example: consider their listening to speaking ratio. Do you feel seen/ heard/ felt/ understood/ respected normally well enough? Are they sensitive enough in considering and anticipating your needs, relative to what you share? If these types of factors are taken into account, I think there is a good framework for "offering advice", in almost all cases.
 

A person who forcefully tries to change you is usually doing so to make themselves feel better in some way. (And sometimes: it's literally just so that they feel safe emotionally and in control of their environment, their world so that their worldview is vindicated because they're driven on by some egging need.) It's helpful0 to remember that it's often fundamentally about that first.

@modmyth Good point on the listening to speaking ratio.  I can also see that some situations will require more of one than the other but that in general, it can be nice to have a balance where it is going back and forth and not one person hogging it all the time; and also looking at the responses and if they are in response to what was just said or if the subject keeps on getting changed.  It is okay to change the subject but if done too much, then the person may feel like they are not being seen/heard/felt/understood like what you said.  I could also see times where something was said but there is such a values/awareness clash between the two people that the listener may not realize how much value/passion the speaker felt for what he/she brought up and dismiss it and bring something else up - but it is also hard to expect others to know how we feel if their experience/background/interests are so different.  Also - I could have commented on anything you said and I happened to pick this! ha.  With regards to considering and anticipating the needs, I guess we could also voice our needs if we feel that they are not being met and also look at if we are meeting theirs as well.

Interesting point on the "trying to change you" to be safer/in control/checking on their view.  I can see that if someone is to the point of feeling uncomfortable, they could do what makes them comfortable and sometimes we are just so unaware of stuff that it takes the other person's telling us.  Or it could be that the other person is saying things that we totally disagree with and we can tell them that we disagree and maybe we change our mind or they change their mind or both.

7 hours ago, modmyth said:

Professional frameworks provide an often DEEPLY needed sense of structure and expectation, IMO. And well.... also boundaries (also related to expectations).

With regards to how people give advice in a professional setting - ah I can see that they may have figured out a game plan of how they say it, what they say, when they say it, what the client seems to be able to handle, what the client can understand, etc.  I still feel a bit weird about all that but I guess I have quit listening to advice because I didn't like the way it was being said so I can see that it can be helpful to gain awareness of that kind of thing - people could quit on their therapist/coach/boss if they do not like the way stuff is said and vice versa.

7 hours ago, modmyth said:

This is something that I have been thinking about lately: it's pretty unfortunate that the things that we "like" and appeal to us off-the-bat or in the short-term are not necessarily the things that we need in the long run, right? The thing is that even something like having a "truth sense" (or intuition) is something that perhaps ought to honed, understood better, or perhaps even critiqued. Because if and when it fails us, and we consider ourselves the final word in the end: it really is our burden to bear, rather than blame.

Intuition seems so weird.  It is like - how the heck are we getting this, where is it coming from, how am I prioritizing??? The ability to see potential and rank stuff is wild.  I guess also just looking at what one's values/strengths/weaknesses/interests are and also using that as well as identifying gaps in info and ways to fill the gaps which then creates more gaps... basically - what is going to allow us to make new stuff that doesn't already exist??

7 hours ago, modmyth said:

There are often underlying core experiences or beliefs about sharing, being open, and being seen/ felt, and also of being of value, that started much earlier (saying growing up and in childhood) which facilitate this attitude or feeling.

(Though I think mostly everyone has had this feeling, except for the few people who truly, deeply, do not care at all.)

Good point.  It can be fun to share one's experiences with others and listen to theirs.  I guess we could also just be unaware or really low skilled at doing certain things or it could also be that we just hadn't had much practice with speaking our mind but then the more we do it, we may notice that oh yes, their feelings are kinda important too haha so I better consider those!  (I guess also will depend on if the person values comfort more or if they value getting new insights more but I would say to a degree, people value both and if we want to give insights that may seem uncomfortable, ahh we may need to be extra careful about comfort or just be ready that it is going to be tough for both parties).  Yeah they could also just be unaware/not care.  Or that it is going to be tough but it is more important to them to say the message than not.

7 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@PepperBlossoms I think the best way to help people is to come from a place of harmony and love. Harmony is a frequency that can be tuned into and so if you are living from a place of harmony and speak from that place when you try to help then good things will happen imo.

The best advice isn't about what's said, it's about how well you can share your own harmonious energy with the person you are trying to help.

@Raptorsin7 Yeah agreed.  People tend to react well to it and may be more likely to work with you and listen.