Nahm Demoted

[Leo Gura]

I regret to inform you guys that I made the decision to demote Nahm from being a Mod. Since he is one of the biggest members of this community I know plenty of you may be upset by this, so here's my explanation:

I have noticed over the last few years that Nahm's posts/advices were becoming more and more out of touch with people. Like he was talking at them or through them, not meeting people at the level they were at. Often his posts were cryptic and ambiguous to the point of confusion. I made several private messages to him about this over a year ago, hoping that he would see the problem and correct it. His posts and replies were becoming so out of touch at times that even I had trouble understanding him. It felt more and more like he was communicate from inside his own spiritual bubble, unable to see how his posts were failing to land with normal people, or even myself. Often I would read one of his posts and just have no idea what he was trying to say or how it would help. And if I fail to understand a post, I know 90%+ of others will not understand it or be helped by it. This failure to understand is not from lack of consciousness but from the style in which Nahm chooses to express himself.  The issue isn't that Nahm is not a developed or conscious guy, but the obscure and nonsensical way he communicates.

I turned I blind eye to this for several years, hoping it would correct itself naturally. Unfortunately it has gotten worse. The parroting of neo-Advaita platitudes in response to people's relative questions and problems has become too much, especially recently. When I explained this problem to Nahm via PM and tried to communicate with him about correcting it, he started to spout those same vapid neo-Advaita platitudes at me. This is not the kind of communication I can stomach from my Mods. It also became clear to me that he was not interested nor capable of changing his ways. Nor do I want to force him to change his ways if he doesn't do so of his own recognizance. The issue here being that platitudes such as "there is no you" or "that is just a thought" do not help people and in fact start to do the opposite. I do not like neo-Advaita style teachings and I do not want this forum to turn into the kind of place where some normie asks a straight forward question and the response is something like, "There is no you, that's just a thought, there is no one to awaken." These kinds of teachings do not lead to the God-realization I am trying to guide people towards.

With that said, I have no personal ill feelings towards Nahm. He's got many wonderful qualities, most of all is his big heart. I have met him in-person and he's a great guy to hang out with. I know he's coming from good intentions, but his style of teaching nonduality simply does not align with what I am trying to teach about God-realization and the future direction of Actualized.org teachings about awakening. I know many of you love Nahm and I know he has helped many of you in various ways. I appreciate that and his service to this community since the forum's inception back in 2016. Unfortunately he can longer be a Mod and the situation may devolve to the point where I have to ask him to leave this forum entirely because he keeps parroting the same neo-Advaita platitudes in every situation and I don't know how much more of that I can tolerate. Honestly, I've been tolerating it for months already. I tried to turn a blind eye to it because he has a long history here, he's helped many people here, I consider him a friend, and many of you guys look up to him. But it's just clear to me that this is not going to work out long term because our styles are so different. What he teaches is not what I teach. And I am okay with that to some degree -- not everyone has to agree with me or teach spirituality like me -- but the vacuous neo-Advaita talk has become too much recently. This is a great example of the problem of conflating relative and absolute matters to the point of disconnect with the normal people. When a store clerk asks you to pay the bill, the proper response is not, "There is no one who can pay the bill, and no bill to pay."

I know some will be upset by this and will disagree with my decision here. So, whatever your feelings are about this situation -- good or bad -- share them here or forever hold your peace. We will not be able to move on from this until the air has been cleared. So take the time to do that now.

I'm sorry it has come to this. I wish Nahm the best. Nahm, I sincerely thank you for your years of service to this community. Really. You put in so much of your heart into this. And we all saw that.

Attached is a screenshot of my last communication with Nahm on this matter so that you understand why I made the decision I did:

https://i.imgur.com/3WKAELm.jpeg

This was not a decision I wanted to make.

Note: do not attack each other over this.

[ZhenZhenZhen]

F

[Preety_India]

Sad situation but understandable. You don't need to beat yourself up so much. Do what's right in your eyes. Why this guilt? 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Preety_India

[Tim R]

Instead of leaving the forum entirely, can't we find a compromiss?

@Nahm Earlier I said that it doesn't matter what kind of talk it is, neo advaita or "normal", neither will help people awaken because it's just talk. And as far as I can recall, you agreed. 

Would you agree to a compromiss? Your style of teaching is unique on this forum, no doubt, but it's just too far out for most people. And I'm not even talking about any neo advaita here, just plain advice often seems so abstract that it unfortunately leads to confusion.

 If you want to help, wouldn't it be better to meet the person where they're at? Which, I know, is not really possible on an online forum, but still..

 

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Unfortunately he can longer be a Mod and the situation may devolve to the point where I have to ask him to leave this forum entirely

@Leo Gura It  may? I thought in the PMs you already have, no?

[Vincent S]

I do Love Nahm. Really. The dude has appeared in my dreams, twice now
Dude offered me his vape pen with DMT

But I can see how it can be a bit hard to get what Nahm is pointing to. To most it will just be seen as a robotic-automated reply on the forum.
His intentions are pure. But he can be a bit more down to earth with his replies. To maximize the help he provides.

Much Love. Love your vids Nahm. Keep them coming.

[Thetruthseeker]

I completely agree Leo 

nahm is obviously evolved in ways but I never found his contributions helpful at all. I was always surprised that someone like nahm who has done so much spiritual work was severely lacking in social intelligence to know the relative communication people need to help them. 
Don’t want to spread negative energy and say anymore … 

That being said, no one is perfect and everyone’s just trying their best in life. Love to nahm and all here 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Thetruthseeker

[Raptorsin7]

You may want to consider not allowing mods to self promote their coaching in the future.

It creates a false sense of authority on behalf of the mod, and can confuse seekers who don't know how to discern the quality of a teaching/teacher.

Granted, I was an irresponsible student and seeker, and i've never seen anyone bring this up on here but i felt genuinely worse and bitter after my time talking to Nahm. I'm still not sure exactly what happened, maybe he was actually giving quality advice and in the future I will realize that he was right all along, but idk. 

I think the mark of a good teacher is their ability to influence and convey their understanding/energy to their student. If people are left constantly bewildered by your posts, I do not understand why someone would continue to post the same advice over and over without altering their approach and seeking alternative methods.

 

[Hello from Russia]

Nooooo, Nahm, our homie ?

Sometimes it was hard to understand him, indeed, but he was always a kind heart in any thread

Edited February 21, 2022 by Hello from Russia

[mandyjw]

@Leo Gura Maybe change the .org ending to this site. It's incredibly deceptive. 

[UnbornTao]

I resonated with your communication, Leo. Regardless of intention, I found Nahm’s platitudes a bit unnerving at times.

Whatever the question, the response would almost always be something like, “You’re imagining that.” Seems to me that, instead of continuously spouting neo-advaita terms, coming from a grounded perspective would be a better “teaching” style.

That said, Nahm sounds like a nice person. I don’t know him personally, but I’m sure he’s helped other members in various ways. I think there is no need to ban him.

In the end, it feels like the right decision, IMO.

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by UnbornTao

[Average Investor]

I appreciate the help, I have received from Nahm. I wish him the best moving forward. 

[Loba]

Awww, sorry to hear that Nahm.  Love you, dude.
We all do, Leo, don't get rid of him from the forum - his advice has been helpful to me at times, when I can understand what he says.

IDK if I agree with demoting him.  As a mod, he did his job well.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

I always imagined extremely spiritual person to be like Nahm - being so advanced, that most people just don't understand you

This is exactly the thing I don't want you guys to absorb.

You can be extremely spiritually advanced AND communicate with humans clearly. It's not just that you didn't understand him because you were not woke enough. I also didn't understand him in many cases. It is a problem of social acuity.

[ivankiss]

[Gesundheit2]

Nahm is great, perhaps one of the greatest teachers I've ever seen. He has so much depth and wisdom and his posts are almost always right on spot if you read them carefully.

But yeah, he has to go. Not so many people will understand the communication at that level. And sometimes it's just an unhealthy reduction of everything into nothing.

[Leo Gura]

If Nahm is willing to correct his communication style, he can stay as a non-Mod member.

[mandyjw]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

This is exactly the thing I don't want you guys to absorb.

You can be extremely spiritually advanced AND communicate with humans clearly. It's not just that you didn't understand him because you were not woke enough. I also didn't understand him in many cases. It is a problem of social acuity.

You think constantly putting competing teachers and your own students down is social acuity? I'm confused. 

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, mandyjw said:

You think constantly putting competing teachers and your own students down is social acuity? I'm confused. 

Oh come on. Leo isn't like that. Don't guilt him like this. 

Leo has valid concerns. 

That kind of talk is cheap. 

Please respect Leo's work here. 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Preety_India

[Thetruthseeker]

@Gesundheit2 this seems contradictory of a great teacher though 

to me a great teacher sees the world from the students perspective. Not continues to talk in his own language without any awareness of what’s actually helpful for the student to evolve. 

[Terell Kirby]

@Leo Gura I noticed he also does a great deal to market his website / business on this forum .. so not sure if how much his cryptic language was being used to increase traffic for his business. Do you plan on creating some guidelines around users marketing their spiritual coaching businesses? I only bring this up because it could possibly taint or corrupt the forum.