Nahm Demoted

[Adam M]

I actually fully understand.

I had a 1on1 coaching call with Nahm (and it was pretty insightful)... but yo it was so fucking hard to understand what he was saying.

And I'm no retard. I have a relatively advanced understanding of the English language and of these complicated and mindfucky spiritual topics...

But it's almost like when he was talking to me I was struggling so hard to understand where he was coming from... it was rather ineffective tbh.

I 100% agree with Leo here.

If you're so awake. Stop fucking telling everyone to just "stop identifying with thoughts."

It's not useful or helpful at all from a relative sense.

It's almost like we are discussing our favorite parts of the movie of Life... and Nahm just keeps saying... "it's just a movie, it's just a movie, it's just a movie." Yeah, thanks. But the point of the movie is that I want to pretend that it isn't a movie. I want to pretend that it's real. Why? Because it's fun.

Love you, Nahm!

Just remember that ppl don't like talking to you unless you are speaking their language. Real "love and compassion" is speaking to someone in a way that they can actually digest. 

Communication is a 2-way street.

"BUT THERE AREN'T 2! THERE'S ONLY ONE!"

What if you were watching a movie and the characters just sat there and chatted gibberish to each other... sure, it's only a movie... but not a very engaging one.

[Flowerfaeiry]

Wow. Alright. Leo's not messing around anymore. *best behavior activated*

[Juan]

6 minutes ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

Wow. Alright. Leo's not messing around anymore. *best behavior activated*

[BipolarGrowth]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes but would you tell someone they are already enlightened and enlightenment is just a thought?  Do you think this is going to help.someone become God realized?  He would then say God Realization is just a thought.   The key thing is that thought should not be demonized

  Thought is what we use for understanding.   Yes paradoxically, it is in not knowing that one finds God and knowing  (meaning Being is knowing).   But that does not.mean knowing should be demonized or that it can't be used to aid on the path to not knowing. Spiritual practices must be used in conjunction.  Direct experience.

 

This is essentially my perspective which I was waiting to post until I was done seeing what else has been said. I think that Nahm’s teaching has a good value for certain people at a certain point in their practice, but I think he was far too detached from the needs of who he was commonly communicating with. 
 

The demonization of thought or “that’s just a thought” is just a thought, lol. The whole teaching style ultimately deconstructs its own usefulness, which is not necessarily a bad thing. It can take people to a good place.  
 

Regardless, thought is not separate from Being. Anyone with the impression that there is a separation has created an unnecessary gap which fragments experience in counterproductive ways when done to extremes. 
 

Thought is one of the best tools for the spiritual path when used in effective ways. Of course, most people come to spirituality with thought causing them countless issues, but the entire teaching should not be to be anti-thought forever. This will not bring people the best experience/life they are capable of, but it is a necessary step to create some gaps between thought at times for this work. 
 

I appreciate Nahm and have mostly appreciated his presence here, but it has come to be problematic. I also would guess that we’re not going to see a change in communication and are more likely to see him gone for at least a while. I say this in part because I noticed a trend where he started moderately trolling Leo and his teachings lately. What Nahm pointed out about Leo’s teachings was in many ways accurate from a certain perspective, but as a mod especially, I think he was taking it too far and setting a bad example at least in the past week or two. 
 

I find his stuff to not be that hard to understand for the most part, but I see it as too simplistic and attached to a singular perspective oftentimes which was one of the faults I saw with it. If it were a normal member and not the most active mod on the forum, I don’t think this would be much of an issue. 

[TheAlchemist]

I also commonly didn't understand much of Nahm's posts, but I did thoroughly enjoy having him here just for the sake of diversity.

Never bothered me that he was pointing to different stuff than Leo. Well, it is what it is. It's a bit disappointing, but a good reminder that honestly we are mere visitors on Leo's forum. And while that might sound limiting to us, that's probably what has kept this forum alive and kicking as long as it has.

But yeah, I'm no doubt very glad to visit while this lasts, many of us will surely look back decades from now with a strong nostalgia for this place. So let's all enjoy the ride while it lasts ?

Edited February 21, 2022 by TheAlchemist

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Tim R said:

I'm not illegitimizing anyone's criticism of Nahm. 

But some posts give the impression that people think this thread is an opportunity to talk badly about Nahm behind his back, that's all I wanted to adress. 

I have said unpleasant things but they are what I feel and perceive. I think I should have said it before, now it doesn't make much sense, maybe it's even mean, i felt bad couple hours since i wrote.

nahm, I feel sympathy for you as for an old acquaintance, but I sincerely believe that there is a lot of the real narcissist in you, and it's very dangerous when you are promoting yourself as a teacher. I see it clearly. I'm wrong? Possible. but think: maybe there is something real. maybe it can help you to see the elephant in the room, if you want to see it

Edited February 21, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Jodistrict]

- mistaken post, sorry -- 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Jodistrict

[Willie]

intentionality ≠ actuality

Having a good heart and trying to help a person does not guarantee that one is being helpful.

I found Nahm’s posting to be quirky and amusing, but I can see how it would lead to frustration if I read them from a place of need.

So I guess this is what was meant by Leo becoming stricter on posting in the forum...

It’s really too bad. But also not bad at all. 

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Crane Bahnsteik be careful.  That does not mean he was not enlightened.  Its a matter of bring able to relate on the personal level.  Its sinply a human skill and nothing more.  Be careful to not create the idea of what an awakened being is in your mind.  It's a trap.

4 hours ago, Tim R said:

 

Be really careful about thinking that someone is enlightened just because they say so. do not underestimate the twisted nature of the human condition

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Be really careful about thinking that someone is enlightened just because they say so. do not underestimate the twisted nature of the human condition

Do you really think I don't know whose awake and who isn't.  You cut me to the quick.

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Do you really think I don't know whose awake and who isn't.  You cut me to the quick.

4 hours ago, Tim R said:

 

I doubt 20 times about my intuition before I form an idea, then I do it, and then I change it... obviously I also doubt yours, but I think they are surely right, you are an honest guy, with integrity and fine perception... or so my intuition tells me. And yes, sure nahm had real awakening in a given moment, like many, but enlightened? Talking 100 of time since the empty mind as he pretended? Definitely no

Edited February 21, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[knakoo]

6 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

normal. every time i read nahm a wave of narcissism hits me. I get the feeling that his goal in posting is to show how advanced he is, and how stupid are the others, and to do so he deliberately makes his posts incomprehensible.  toxic. narc.  

Consider the possibility that you are projecting here

[StarStruck]

5 minutes ago, knakoo said:

Consider the possibility that you are projecting here

I didn't say this earlier but I always thought he confused people on purpose so people would take coaching with him but I thought: I'm probably projecting and I didn't share it.

[Ulax]

25 minutes ago, knakoo said:

Consider the possibility that you are projecting here

I mean you can literally accuse any comment of being a projection.

[Ulax]

Was he really trying to help, or was he more just advertising that he was at peace?

I think its important to meet people at the spiral dynamics stage they appear to be at. Wtf is stage turquoise talk going to do for someone dealing with a (i.e.) stage blue issue, or person who is mostly stage blue, generally speaking.

[Breakingthewall]

28 minutes ago, knakoo said:

Consider the possibility that you are projecting here

4 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Crane Bahnsteik 

5 hours ago, Tim R said:

 

Yeah yeah, hard ruthless judgement. sorry nahm. but so many times I have seen it so clear, so obvious... a total scam and nobody realizes it. I have had close experiences with narcissists and I think I know how to spot it. it's a subtle thing. It's when the guy speaks and everything he says revolves around him, he can't get out of there, he's trapped and doesn't realize it, then his speech gets poorer and ends in a series of repeated mantras that can be translated into: I'm smart and you're dumb, since you have to be dumb for it to show how smart I am. and there is no analysis of reality, just me me me...

[Ulax]

@lxlichael Well said, I agree in general

[Roy]

5 hours ago, Tim R said:

I'm not illegitimizing anyone's criticism of Nahm. 

But some posts give the impression that people think this thread is an opportunity to talk badly about Nahm behind his back, that's all I wanted to adress. 

I wanted to hold my tongue today, but I can't, it's fucking insufferable. I am extremely disheartened by some of the comments and negativity I've seen in this thread. To see this kind of treatment towards one of the largest, most positive cornerstones of this community is about as surprising as it is disappointing.

I guess the meat brings out the wolves though. Perhaps my expectations of this place are too high.

[Ulax]

@Roy I get you don't like this thread.

However, a lot of people probably felt unsafe criticising him before, and now it is safe to do so. Hence, I reckon people feel more able to express their honest opinions regarding his conduct now.

[Breakingthewall]

I totally regret what I said, not because I don't think so, but because I should have said it to Nham's face, or kept quiet. I feel like a total idiot and a coward. apologies to all and nahm.

I've had this in mind for a long time and I couldn't shut up. Mistake