If so many realize the illusion of self then why....

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Michal__ said:

Many of the popular youtoob teachers are stage blue, or even historic teachers like Suzuki DT. They're obviously a more mentally stable than Connor, but I wouldn't say mental development is the biggest issue with him - I think the main issue is just mental instability + narcissism.

If Connor Murphy is a spiritual teacher then I was a spiritual teacher when I was 19 ?

[Matthew85]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Honestly, after my deepest awakening, it's made me embrace my desires more. I am more honest with myself about my animalistic desires. I have no problem being hedonistic at times. I've dropped the spiritual act of being above desire, and this is actually growth.

This is great to hear Leo. Many are missing the ability to see and experience God in their desires. They end up adopting a lot of strange beliefs that cause unnecessary conflict and suffering within themselves.  

[Michal__]

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

If Connor Murphy is a spiritual teacher then I was a spiritual teacher when I was 19 ?

Not really what my post implied but whatever. 

Do I really have to state the obvious?

The point is that many people here overestimate respectable teacher's SD stage just because they're awakened.

Edit: idk if my first post about was misunderstood because of my English (I'm not from an English speaking country), but since I've clarified it here a second time already it should now be obvious.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Michal__

[RevoCulture]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

1) Because survival require selfish zero-sum actions. Or you die. Even for Jesus Christ or The Buddha to live he must walk, step on, and kill many ants. Awakening does not make you an angel. You still gotta shit like everyone else.

2) Realizing that one's human identity is illusory is much easier than changing your entire identity to some other. Awakening is not personal development and awakening is not mastery.

3) Creating a highly conscious community/society is an other order of magnitude higher and a separate matter from awakening.

You could have an awakening and then go shoot up a school. That doesn't mean the awakening didn't happen or wasn't real. It's just that one awakening does not transform a lifetime of bad mental habits.

Also, most of the people claiming awakening are not really awake. So there's that.

With the limitations of language & grammar, there isn't a way to truly pinpoint where someone is coming from, only generalizations. It is what it is.  Replying for fun, simply round out the @Leo Gura exchange.  Your points are naturally valid.  I will expand ever so slightly on what I was going after.

Referencing point 1)  I have no qualms with my primal biological nature, I have no qualms with stepping on ants or cutting down a tree.  The point i was making is if person truly had the visceral experience of knowing themselves as the unified body why would they desire to own 3 homes, 5 cars, travel the world, have closets of clothes, update their phone and other devices at every new model, basically participate and reinforce a narrative that is going to likely have dire consequences.. Tricky part, ultimately there is nothing right or wrong it simply is, get that out of the way.  I am talking about the awakening of consciousness that leads to a unified position where a person knows themselves as the collective.  Yes, the physical body is not going anywhere and the physical demands must be met, no problem with that.  There is a difference between having a body and maintaining it through the lens of eternal consciousness and not knowing anything other than the body and living for maximum expression of status, power, resources, sex.. all at the expense of the collective.. My point was people claim to know they are the collective unified consciousness yet they live like all they know is the narrative of the primal biological being. 

Referencing point 2)  Direct reply to your response, not my original writing.  Awakening is whatever it is at the place people are awakening to.  With increased knowledge and compassion people's actions begin to shift, is this personal development? And are their efforts to incorporate the principles of that awakening into their lives considered mastery of being?    I hear what you are saying, two sides of a coin, ultimately everything is everything.  Is awakening personal development and mastery or simply experience leading to the insight of what is?  It could be seen from the perspective that it is simply about awakening, the experiences of insight.  Or it could be seen from the perspective that awakening is inevitably marked by a continuum of change or development with a long-term mastery of what is, reality, knowing life, functioning within it with skill.

Referencing point 3)  Yes, there is a huge difference between individual awakening and collective awakening.  Individual awakening leads to a critical juncture that opens the ability to function within a collective, primarily due to the first-hand knowledge of being the collective and the design parameters of that reality.  My original point was leading to the fact that a person who has truly experienced a visceral sense of self as the collective has garnered the ability to function within the collective.  They see the formula that allows for participation, they have the tools and conviction to live as the collective.  They finally know themselves as the collective and the identity as the primal biological being and the ego intellectual being has been harnessed and now serves as a tool for engaging the collective body.

There is no right or wrong point with the evolutionary development of humanity or conscious awakening process.  To me this isnt about what should or shouldn't be, it all should be and is.  I don't favor some things over others, I believe it all belongs.  Where I start to place definitive judgment is in defining what stages look like what.  Absolute unity, absolute division, and all the degrees of expression in between have different expressions, has nothing to do with right or wrong.  They simply mirror the formula of that particular expression.

Humanity is being drawn towards unity, there is a formula inherent within the design. I would say Spiral Dynamics is one example that taps this.

Anyhoo.. Appreciate your thoughts.

[OBEler]

Connor Murphy is for his age far more Spiritual than most of you. 

Consindering his background it would be almost impossible to be Spiritual. Well He went too fast and burned but He reached  pretty high levels. Respect for that (and his freak Show, showing an entire generation of Kids, dont play with psychedelics like a mad man) 

Edited February 22, 2022 by OBEler

[SgtPepper]

10 minutes ago, OBEler said:

Connor Murphy is for his age far more Spiritual than most of you. 

How did you conclude that?

[ItsNick]

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can make up some fantasy but there's nothing to do but enjoy life.

That resonates.

Enjoy the dream

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, RevoCulture said:

Referencing point 1)  I have no qualms with my primal biological nature, I have no qualms with stepping on ants or cutting down a tree.  The point i was making is if person truly had the visceral experience of knowing themselves as the unified body why would they desire to own 3 homes, 5 cars, travel the world, have closets of clothes, update their phone and other devices at every new model, basically participate and reinforce a narrative that is going to likely have dire consequences..

I would consider it mature and silly if a deeply awakened person owned 3 homes and 5 cars. I would not do that myself.

But in the end if some awakened dude wants 5 sports cars, it's not gonna change the fact that he's awake. Maybe he like to collect cars because he thinks they are beautiful works of art, or whatever. Obviously it could also just be remnant vanity.

Quote

Referencing point 2)  Direct reply to your response, not my original writing.  Awakening is whatever it is at the place people are awakening to.  With increased knowledge and compassion people's actions begin to shift, is this personal development? And are their efforts to incorporate the principles of that awakening into their lives considered mastery of being?    I hear what you are saying, two sides of a coin, ultimately everything is everything.  Is awakening personal development and mastery or simply experience leading to the insight of what is?  It could be seen from the perspective that it is simply about awakening, the experiences of insight.  Or it could be seen from the perspective that awakening is inevitably marked by a continuum of change or development with a long-term mastery of what is, reality, knowing life, functioning within it with skill.

You can define yours terms however you want, but when I speak of awakening I'm speaking of a very specific sort of shift in consciousness. I am not speaking of some general path of spiritual evolution or growth. Awakening happens within seconds or minutes as your consciousness expands into a new state. It does not take years. So I would distinguish an awakening vs a path of gradual spiritual development and growth. You can have one without the other, or both.

Quote

Referencing point 3)  Yes, there is a huge difference between individual awakening and collective awakening.

I don't agree that there is such a thing as collective awakening at all.

There is only YOUR awakening.

You can speak figuratively of mankind's awakening, but this is not at all the same as individual awakening that I talk about.

Quote

a person who has truly experienced a visceral sense of self as the collective has garnered the ability to function within the collective. 

This is a very dangerous assumption. I would not believe in something so naive. Dealing effectively with collectives is a deep skill set which requires specific experience and training. You can experience a visceral sense of collective as self, but this will not automatically give you great social skills or the systems thinking necessary to deal well with collective issues. Collectives also always mean politics, and navigating politics is a deep skill too. Awakening will not make you a great politician automatically.

[RevoCulture]

@Leo Gura good stuff.. 

We arent truly connecting in the root of what is being intended, my inability to clearly communicate.  

Fun to kick around.. 

Example.of missed meaning:  By collective awakening i mean the accepted cultural narratives at any given time. The individual awakenings that coalesce into culture standards.. Raping and pillaging, extreme forms of slavery were acceptable amongst people of a particular degree of awakening.  

Over time with continued awakening, new knowledge, new practices are established and some shunned.. A collective awakening comprised of individual awakenings.. im with you, individuals awaken, then they influence culture and society.. Words.. tricky..