If so many realize the illusion of self then why....

[Leo Gura]

34 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

Do you both think there is a mature, defined, final realized version of the self (lowercase s) or is that undefined and can only be actualized through the unfolding of deeper awakenings?

I don't know what that means. You can keep developing your self/mind forever.

Quote

Trying my best to explain this...

I see sometimes new age say to embrace desire, whereas I am sensing tradition religions are saying to abstain from certain behaviors. Is this wise or delusion? or can it be both?

I think it's far more realistic to embrace your desires and indulge them as long as they aren't crazy toxic like the desire to shoot up a school. Obviously shouldn't indulge that. But if you have a desire for porn, for example, I would indulge it. And I do

Honestly, after my deepest awakening, it's made me embrace my desires more. I am more honest with myself about my animalistic desires. I have no problem being hedonistic at times. I've dropped the spiritual act of being above desire, and this is actually growth.

For example, in the middle of my deepest awakening I got the desire/vision to start a love triangle / threesome with 2 girlfriends. And there was zero shame in that. I'm not saying I'm acting out on it, but I'm also not saying I would not. Basically, I allow myself whatever pleasure I want which doesn't harm others much. My range of future behavior is more open than ever, but also I have less need to act selfishly because I'm more conscious than ever. And still, I allow myself to act selfishly too!

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

 threesome with 2 girlfriends. And there was zero shame in that. I'm not saying I'm acting out on it, but I'm also not saying I would not. Basically, I allow myself whatever pleasure I want which doesn't harm others much. My range of future behavior is more open than ever, but also I have less need to act selfishly because I'm more conscious than ever. And still, I allow myself to act selfishly too!

Well fuck that's your problem.  You never experienced a 3 some.  Get you some bro!

[SgtPepper]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can keep developing your self/mind forever.

yes, that does make sense actually. 

 

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Honestly, after my deepest awakening, it's made me embrace my desires more. I am more honest with myself about my animalistic desires. I have no problem being hedonistic at times. I've dropped the spiritual act of being above desire, and this is actually growth.

For example, in the middle of my deepest awakening I got the desire/vision to start a love triangle / threesome with 2 girlfriends. And there was zero shame in that. I'm not saying I'm acting out on it, but I'm also not saying I would not. Basically, I allow myself whatever pleasure I want which doesn't harm others much.

what is the wisdom in following animalistic desires/chasing pleasure?

If we are spending time following animalistic desire, is that not time away from who you are, Truth?

I mean, I get it, I am no saint. But is it not the goal to overcome these desires, not through shame or guilt, but the pursuit of higher (quality) pleasure that is God?

Edited February 21, 2022 by SgtPepper

[Inliytened1]

13 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

yes, that does make sense actually. 

 

what is the wisdom in following animalistic desires/chasing pleasure?

If we are spending time following animalistic desire, is that not time away from who you are, Truth?

I mean, I get it, I am no saint. But is it not the goal to overcome these desires, not through shame or guilt, but the pursuit of higher pleasure that is God? 

No.  That's the key mistake.  To put yourself in a conceptual category.  God is everything.  God is animalistic desire.  God is One.   God is all of it.  Right now you are conceptually painting a way that you have to be in your mind.  This must come naturally without thinking.  

[SgtPepper]

34 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

No.  That's they key mistake.  To put yourself in a conceptual category.  God is everything.  God is animalistic desire.  God is One.   God is all of it.  Right now you are conceptually painting a way that you have to be in your mind.  This must come naturally without thinking.  

okay, hold up, let's break it down, please.

because I feel like you are saying the relative truth does not matter in that statement, but we just agreed that some things are unwise and some are wise.

If I am not placing myself in a category and not thinking about my behavior as well as the impact, that would be unwise, would it not?

I am choosing to listen to Leo over Connor for a reason or maybe listening to Conner can bring me to God just as much as Leo?

Saying Leo is more awake than Connor is just as much conceptual category as anything...

 

If I say God is all, then listening to Connor is just good as listening to Leo, but we agreed this is not the case. So God is not all of it so to speak, in a real relative way. God is something specific.

He is not awake, but He is.

Murdering an innocent baby is not going to bring me to God-realization, but cautiously doing psychedelics will. 

so in other words different behaviors/practices have different results right?

Unless you are saying, that I can find God in the act murdering an innocent baby?

Because if you are saying is that all relative acts are God, rather than the imagination of God - then this justifies cult leads who rape teens and pedophile priests who rape children.

------------

God is animalistic desire? how can that be if God is nothingness and needs nothing?

Sex is imaginary, but God is not, right? 

-----

What we are speaking about is the crux/crossroad of my spiritual understanding, and it is the difference between hope/love and nihilism to me. Am I deluded with that statement? 

I'd like some clarification on those of you, who are further in the path than I.

edit: moreover, I can see in a way that Leo is saying, it is wise, to accept oneself. But what if oneself is a rapist? then personal development is order, so its quite a paradox? 

Edited February 21, 2022 by SgtPepper

[Leo Gura]

47 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

what is the wisdom in following animalistic desires/chasing pleasure?

Because it's just acknowledging what you are.

Quote

If we are spending time following animalistic desire, is that not time away from who you are, Truth?

Let's say you found Truth, what then?

Quote

I mean, I get it, I am no saint. But is it not the goal to overcome these desires, not through shame or guilt, but the pursuit of higher (quality) pleasure that is God?

I bring my Godness into the sex or whatever.

When you realize you're God, you will also realize a deep compassion for yourself and your desires. God doesn't need you to surrender all your desires, that's actually ego talking. God would love for you to explore whichever desires you desire. God can allow itself to be selfish because it is selfless.

If you want to buy yourself a Porsche Taycan, God will say: "Okay, buy it and enjoy it." God is not going to say, "No you selfish fuck, that's wrong!"

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because it's just acknowledging what you are.

Let's say you found Truth, what then?

I bring my Godness into the sex or whatever.

When you realize you're God, you will also realize a deep compassion for yourself and your desires. God doesn't need you to surrender all your desires, that's actually ego talking. God would love for you to explore whichever desires you desire. God can allow itself to be selfish.

But you still ain't had a three some.  

[Michal__]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

To be fair to him, I spoke to him and he had some deep insights and awakenings. But that doesn't guarantee mature behavior in the relative world. Mixing legit awakening with mental disorder + immaturity + a stage Orange level of development is a recipe for trouble. And that's what unfolded.

Many of the popular youtoob teachers are stage blue, or even historic teachers like Suzuki DT. They're obviously a more mentally stable than Connor, but I wouldn't say mental development is the biggest issue with him - I think the main issue is just mental instability + narcissism.

[Leo Gura]

@Michal__ Are your seriously comparing Suzuki DT to Connor Fucking Murphy?

[Yali]

@Leo Gura Suzuki DT = Stage Blue

Connor Murphy = Stage Orange/Green

 

[Michal__]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Michal__ Are your seriously comparing Suzuki DT to Connor Fucking Murphy?

No. I'm just bringing up spiral dynamics, since you brought them up. Spiral dynamics is not an appropriate tool when talking about mental instability like Connor's case.

Notice how my post didn't imply that Connor's near Suzuki's enlightenment level at all?

Edited February 21, 2022 by Michal__

[SgtPepper]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Because it's just acknowledging what you are.

do you mean the imagination of who we are or God? 

I do see the wisdom in accepting oneself. so that's a good answer to me.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Let's say you found Truth, what then?

Well, I imagine, going out to the world and servicing Myself. Living life deeply with my whole body. Devote myself to something meaningful.

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I bring my Godness into the sex or whatever.

When you realize you're God, you will also realize a deep compassion for yourself and your desires. God doesn't need you to surrender all your desires, that's actually ego talking. God would love for you to explore whichever desires you desire. God can allow itself to be selfish because it is selfless.

I do the same. - "Bring Godness into sex"

Is it not a bit of a paradox? the desire to not surrender desires is also ego talking? Since if I were in the Godhead, there would be no desires, since God does not need (?)

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

If you want to buy yourself a Porsche Taycan, God will say: "Okay, buy it and enjoy it." God is not going to say, "No you selfish fuck, that's wrong!"

I feel like God may say, go ahead, but it won't satisfy you. As if to say, go do something more meaningful. I could be wrong though.

 

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

But you still ain't had a three some.  

What is the value in that? Did a threesome bring you great meaning into your life?

 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by SgtPepper

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, Yali said:

@Leo Gura Suzuki DT = Stage Blue

Connor Murphy = Stage Orange/Green

Connor Murphy = Buffoon with mental disorder

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, SgtPepper said:

Devote myself to something meaningful.

There's nothing meaningful beyond awakening. There's nothing left to do.

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

 

What is the value in that? Did a threesome bring you great meaning into your life?

 

Just fucking with Leo.

[SgtPepper]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

There's nothing meaningful beyond awakening. There's nothing left to do.

There's no meaningful way to be (ego) or play the game that aligns with the Truth seen in awakening?

like what about healing? or is that all is already healed when awakened?

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

I

I feel like God may say, go ahead, but it won't satisfy you. As if to say, go do something more meaningful. I could be wrong though.

 

You are God so that is you talking to you.

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

There's no meaningful way to be (ego) or play the game that aligns with the Truth seen in awakening?

You can make up some fantasy but there's nothing to do but enjoy life.

9 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

like what about healing?

Healing what? You're God.

[Explorer_42]

@Leo Gura reminds me of one of my favourite quotes of Alan Watts:

"We thought of life by analogy with a journey, a pilgrimage, which had a serious purpose at the end, and the thing was to get to that end, success or whatever it is, maybe heaven after you’re dead. But we missed the point the whole way along. It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing or to dance while the music was being played." 

What else is there to do than dance? And you dance best when you're not focusing on the steps behind and ahead of you but when you lose yourself in the present moment.

[SgtPepper]

.

Edited February 22, 2022 by SgtPepper