If so many realize the illusion of self then why....

[RevoCulture]

The number of people in the forum that claim to understand the illusion of self and the reality of the unified Self is substantial. 

Let me expand on that sentiment, so we are on the same page.  A substantial number of people in the forum have a strong sense that our personal identity isn't our true identity, that we are actually unified consciousness, the singularity, eternal consciousness, etc.  There are people that say our body isn't real, we aren't real, it is an illusion, or thought stemming from unified consciousness, God, Brahama, etc.

I am not trying to debate the merits of that information. 

What I would like to highlight is this:

If people have so clearly understood that this is true, then why are they living their lives as though it wasn't true?  Seriously, why live lives that are so heavily tied to the identity that is being claimed to be an illusion?  If you knew you were the unified essence of consciousness, I mean really understood it, then you would be able to live as a unified body of consciousness.  Yet, they don't.  There isn't a living organization of these people functioning in such a state of harmony, why?  I mean a start to finish, fully inclusive design of all human needs geared to assist in the continual awakening process.  A networked fully sustainable model reflecting identity as a unified consciousness, start to finish. (and monasteries don't do this, if they cracked the code they would have scaled)

The people who keep repeatedly offering the same sentiment, circling the fact that we are unified consciousness at our depths, but are incapable of living a life that mirrors that sentiment should pause and reflect.   Why do I keep living through my ego identity, why do I continue to buy things that really don't fulfill me and cause harm to others?  If I am everyone, why do I live in a way that harms others and satisfies my ego, the thing I keep saying is an illusion?

If my body isn't real and if my ego is an illusion, why do I go to work, go to school, why do I participate?  Why do I pursue hobbies, why do I have relationships that are rooted in these illusions?  Relationships are based on the very things that people are claiming to not be real, why do you have them then?

The biggest question for me, if you are truly liberated why are you not living in supportive groups that mirror these truths?  Why are you not able to offer deeper granular insights into the nature of this design?

Zooming out to ten thousand feet, we see that there is an evolutionary process, an awakening process at play.  The arrival of the human culture and society that reflects these truths is dependent on something, the humility of the people making these sorts of claims.   Saying we are unified consciousness at our depths, is like kindergarten through 3rd grade, in the educational process. 

As a baby we don't know anything, then we start school and we learn letters and numbers, reading and basic math.  The humility that is required, knowing you are eternal consciousness is basic, so basic.  It only looks like something impressive or incredibly enlightening when compared to someone who is asleep, the equivalent of a baby.

Humility is required, the humility to know that this realization is simply your entry into the game, that is it.  Welcome to the game, no its time to focus.  You are eternal consciousness and the ego isn't your true self, you passed 1st grade, congratulations.  Now, work towards your Ph.D. 

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by RevoCulture

[_Archangel_]

1 hour ago, RevoCulture said:

If people have so clearly understood that this is true, then why are they living their lives as though it wasn't true?  Seriously, why live lives that are so heavily tied to the identity that is being claimed to be an illusion?

@RevoCulture keep in mind that people tend to over-estimate their attainments, so of course actions don't match speech.

True, authentic enlightment can lead to radical changes, expecially if your life is messed-up, but in some cases, the life after awakening might just be the same as it was before. Most harmless habits remain.
"Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water."

 

1 hour ago, RevoCulture said:

If you knew you were the unified essence of consciousness, I mean really understood it, then you would be able to live as a unified body of consciousness.  Yet, they don't.  There isn't a living organization of these people functioning in such a state of harmony, why?  I mean a start to finish, fully inclusive design of all human needs geared to assist in the continual awakening process.

you can find little comunities here and there in the world like Ananda in italy.
The truth is that there isnt yet a big enough number of awakened people to create a magnetic pull able to manifest a world community of highly evolved individuals, designed to create more. we'll see that 2-300 years in the future

 

2 hours ago, RevoCulture said:

If my body isn't real and if my ego is an illusion, why do I go to work, go to school, why do I participate?  Why do I pursue hobbies, why do I have relationships that are rooted in these illusions?  Relationships are based on the very things that people are claiming to not be real, why do you have them then?

Why not, i ask you. Knowing this is an illusion shouldn't inhibit you from experiencing the dream as you want, with joy and pleasure.
The materilistic paradigm is not true and everything is mind-made. So what? Do what you like. This notion, if nothing else, should free you up.

2 hours ago, RevoCulture said:

The biggest question for me, if you are truly liberated why are you not living in supportive groups that mirror these truths?  Why are you not able to offer deeper granular insights into the nature of this design?

Zooming out to ten thousand feet, we see that there is an evolutionary process, an awakening process at play.  The arrival of the human culture and society that reflects these truths is dependent on something, the humility of the people making these sorts of claims.   Saying we are unified consciousness at our depths, is like kindergarten through 3rd grade, in the educational process. 

As i have said communities gets created when thre is enough people thinking the same way and sharing the same values.
unfortunatly, as of now,  not many people truly value Truth to build a society around it

But don't fall into the trap of thinking that you are truly enlightened only if you seclude your self from mainstream society.
Planty of these (rare) people live a regular life. Communities will appear when there is a sufficient number.

This process will continue to unfold no matter if people are honest or not, so don't warry. human deception will always be at play.

[The Lucid Dreamer]

Humans are very habitual creatures. In fact, I’d go as far as to say that 95% or more of your behavior and thinking processes are purely habitual.  Just because you might see through the illusion for a time doesn’t mean that your life long programming is going to be overridden willy nilly.  Rewiring your mind takes years of very deliberate effort. 

[Inliytened1]

@RevoCulture very easy to answer.  The question to me is that if you have become directly conscious that the Self is Love, Goodness, integrity, and  selflessness- why do you continue to be a devil after awakening?  

The ego was made to be the devil.  When you awaken as Truth and return to the ego, it is very counterintuitive to begin to embody its true nature - which is God, and that the ego self was deception.  It finds it much easier to continue to be the devil.  It's like skiing uphill...you have to go against everything the ego is.   Stop being so damm selfish!   Easier said then done  the devil refuses to die..it has a very strong survival need.  If you are able to become totally selfless, the devil would cease to exist and it cant have that!!

 

[RMQualtrough]

I KNOW the self is just a bunch of changing appearances. It doesn't seem to change anything to know this... I don't mean in the Leo sense of "my last awakening was BS, THIS is the real absolute truth this time I swear" every week. I mean I know. Definitively. And this is something you can also see discussed by materialists like Sam Harris. It's just an undeniable truth.

The self seems to be more like a pattern of activity rather than anything static and concrete. As well as the storybook built off of memories of past events. But behaviorally speaking, it seems pattern based.

I don't think we really control what emerges and whatever else. Thoughts and actions, whatever, just unfolding...

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, RevoCulture said:

The people who keep repeatedly offering the same sentiment, circling the fact that we are unified consciousness at our depths, but are incapable of living a life that mirrors that sentiment should pause and reflect.   Why do I keep living through my ego identity, why do I continue to buy things that really don't fulfill me and cause harm to others?  If I am everyone, why do I live in a way that harms others and satisfies my ego, the thing I keep saying is an illusion?

1) Because survival require selfish zero-sum actions. Or you die. Even for Jesus Christ or The Buddha to live he must walk, step on, and kill many ants. Awakening does not make you an angel. You still gotta shit like everyone else.

2) Realizing that one's human identity is illusory is much easier than changing your entire identity to some other. Awakening is not personal development and awakening is not mastery.

3) Creating a highly conscious community/society is an other order of magnitude higher and a separate matter from awakening.

You could have an awakening and then go shoot up a school. That doesn't mean the awakening didn't happen or wasn't real. It's just that one awakening does not transform a lifetime of bad mental habits.

Also, most of the people claiming awakening are not really awake. So there's that.

[Bobby_2021]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 Also, most of the people claiming awakening are not really awake. So there's that.

You claim that you are have the Highest degree of awakening compared to any other master.

 

Who after you, has the highest degree of awakening?

Sadhguru?

[SgtPepper]

Lots of ways to answer. 

An absolute way to answer it is to recognize that God is in control. So why we don't do x,y,z is because God does not create it that way. And perhaps that is the case because there is a purpose in experiencing that good and evil. 

and I say this as a suggestion, maybe something to contemplate, not as absolute truth.

Edited February 21, 2022 by SgtPepper

[Inliytened1]

26 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You claim that you are have the Highest degree of awakening compared to any other master.

 

Who after you, has the highest degree of awakening?

Sadhguru?

Careful to get lost in a story that has enlightened masters..one who is the most awakened.  Step outside of that.  Go meta.

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You claim that you are have the Highest degree of awakening compared to any other master.

Who after you, has the highest degree of awakening?

Sadhguru?

The only one who can awaken is you.

Forget about Sadhguru, he's just a dream. Forget about me too while you're at it.

[Bobby_2021]

57 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Careful to get lost in a story that has enlightened masters..one who is the most awakened.  Step outside of that.  Go meta.

Understood.

49 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The only one who can awaken is you.

Forget about Sadhguru, he's just a dream. Forget about me too while you're at it.

Agreed. I am slowly deconstructing the dream & I am making progress.

It's a little difficult to deconstruct the idea of other, but I can easily do it in 5-10 years or so definitely.

But my question was meant in a relativistic sense only.

Got curious after watching your blog where you repeatedly said no one else is truly awake because there are so many degrees of awakening they haven't yet accessed. That's a big statement.

That's why I asked.

If someone in real life asks me:

"How many truth realised beings have you met, online or offline?"

what shall I say?

I am not Enlightened of course.

(Else I could have said, one).

Edited February 21, 2022 by Bobby_2021

[Leo Gura]

@Bobby_2021 It's just not a good use of your time to sit there and try to rank the levels of awakening of every spiritual teacher you've heard of. I am not going to be ranking each teacher for you. I have my personal suspicions but this is not something scientific. As you listen to teachers and teachings you get a subtle sense of who's realized what and what they haven't realized. And then you realize that even all that is just a distraction from your own awakening.

You want to reach a point where you don't care at all any more about any spiritual teacher or teaching. You're going to throw all of it in the trash once you seriously awaken.

Thank fucking God that I don't need to read another spiritual book or listen to another spiritual teacher ever again. This is the place you wanna reach.

[SgtPepper]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You could have an awakening and then go shoot up a school. That doesn't mean the awakening didn't happen or wasn't real. It's just that one awakening does not transform a lifetime of bad mental habits.

Leo, you have previously discussed wisdom and it's one of my favorite videos of yours. because it is a value of mine and I also noticed it is something I value more, especially the more I awaken.

If someone deeply awakens and then shoots up a school, how is that wise?

and If someone is not wise, then couldn't it be said they are not fully awake?

If I did 4g of mushrooms and I thought about pissing myself and maybe did piss myself because nothing matters, isn't that just stupid and a result of not being considerate of the relative truth?

It just seems to me that wisdom and being awake are connected in some way. Am I just being biased here?

Like If I speak with Connor Murphy or You, I am obviously going to see you as more wise because you appear more aware of how your behavior effects others; and therefore more awake.

What's going on? Does it just all boil down to personal bias and survival?

Anyways, I am looking forward to your next video.

Edited February 21, 2022 by SgtPepper

[Inliytened1]

16 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

L

If someone deeply awakens and then shoots up a school, how is that wise?

 

The Point is to make a distinction between God Realization and personal development

 They are two.separate entities.  That's not to say that when you awaken to God you will shoot up a school

 You will not, because to awaken in the first place you have had to have been ready for the level of God revelation that was revealed.  You will already be Good for Goodness itself to a certain degree

 The Point is that personal development is a separate axle or trajectory .

Now, here is the curve ball:

Ultimately they must align as one

 That is the singularity 

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

Leo, you have previously discussed wisdom and it's one of my favorite videos of yours. because it is a value of mine and I also noticed it is something I value more, especially the more I awaken.

If someone deeply awakens and then shoots up a school, how is that wise?

and If someone is not wise, then couldn't it be said they are not fully awake?

I didn't say they were fully awake. I said "had an awakening". 1 awakening doesn't mean much and doesn't change much about your behavior.

Obviously it's not wise.

A person with mental illness (like Connor Murphy) can have an awakening and then decide to shoot up a school.

Quote

It just seems to me that wisdom and being awake are connected in some way. Am I just being biased here?

They are connected but the ego-mind is a stubborn beast that will remain for years and years, doing it's devilish things.

Quote

Like If I speak with Connor Murphy or You, I am obviously going to see you as more wise because you appear more aware of how your behavior effects others; and therefore more awake.

That's not even a matter of awakening. Connor Murphy is just very shallow and immature. He's very young. He's an attention whore. That's baked into his ego-mind and it will take him decades of work to outgrow that.

I have immature aspects of my mind as well. It will take me years to grow out of that too.

You can't really compare a 20 year old awakened person to a 30 year old to a 60 year old one. Maturity is a huge factor there and it matters. Young people do and say dumb things. The younger they are the dumber they are. Deep wisdom comes with age and massive experience.

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I didn't say they were fully awake. I said "had an awakening". 1 awakening doesn't mean much and doesn't change much about your behavior.

Obviously it's not wise.

A person with mental illness (like Connor Murphy) can have an awakening and then decide to shoot up a school.

They are connected but the ego-mind is a stubborn beast that will remain for years and years, doing it's devilish things.

That's not even a matter of awakening. Connor Murphy is just very shallow and immature. He's very young. He's an attention whore. That's baked into his ego-mind and it will take him decades of work to outgrow that.

I have immature aspects of my mind as well. It will take me years to grow out of that too.

You can't really compare a 20 year old awakened person to a 30 year old to a 60 year old one. Maturity is a huge factor there and it matters. Young people do and say dumb things. The younger they are the dumber they are. Deep wisdom comes with age and massive experience.

No. Connor was not awake.  He never awoke to God.  He was delusional 

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

No. Connor was not awake.  He never awoke to God.  He was delusional 

To be fair to him, I spoke to him and he had some deep insights and awakenings. But that doesn't guarantee mature behavior in the relative world. Mixing legit awakening with mental disorder + immaturity + a stage Orange level of development is a recipe for trouble. And that's what unfolded.

Awakening != development

Don't forget that development is hugely important. Awakening is not the only thing we pursue here. We also do a lot of development work. Those of you who are not ready for the highest awakening can just stick around for the development aspects of this work and enjoy a good normal life.

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

To be fair to him, I spoke to him and he had some deep insights and awakenings. But that doesn't guarantee mature behavior in the relative world. Mixing legit awakening with mental disorder + immaturity + a stage Orange level of development is a recipe for trouble. And that's what unfolded.

These are the dangers of psychedelics.

Unearned wisdom 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

These are the dangers of psychedelics 

Yes, psychedelics are a catalyst for the psyche. They can speed up an upward ascent to heaven or a downward descent into hell.

[SgtPepper]

I agree.

I do not follow or agree with Connor Murphy at all in terms of how to behave or present myself, but brought him up as a reference.

Thank you for your guys reply. 

I see the oneness via deep no thoughts states and psychedelics. But I also saw the value or wisdom in making a distinction of a relationship in my personal behavior & identity and my awakenings to God. and I was wondering if this is keeping myself deluded or perhaps it is part of the process and for now, I need to maintain this sense of self. 

Do you both think there is a mature, defined, final realized version of the self (lowercase s) or is that undefined and can only be actualized through the unfolding of deeper awakenings?

I guess I like having a behavioral goal (personal development) and sometimes use it, even to the point of resisting my 'devilish' desires to maintain the sense of devotion to stillness/God or maybe my higher maturer self.

Trying my best to explain this...

I see sometimes new age say to embrace desire, whereas I am sensing tradition religions are saying to abstain from certain behaviors. Is this wise or delusion? or can it be both?

what do you guys think?

edit:

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Those of you who are not ready for the highest awakening can just stick around for the development aspects of this work and enjoy a good normal life.

I'd definitely like to do both, in my own pace, which is why I stay. I also like socializing with you all. And I like having an avenue of information that is not dogmatic and is unreligious. Of course, it appears to me that developed humans will look different from person to person.

Edited February 21, 2022 by SgtPepper