What is cessation?

[vladorion]

54 minutes ago, fictional_character said:

@Vincent S That's interesting. I asked because I'm skeptical that you can achieve a state of consciousness in wich body sensation and perception dissapear.

What Vincent described is not a cessation. Cessation is not a state of consciousness because in cessation there is no consciousness. You only know about it retrospectively.

[BipolarGrowth]

1 hour ago, fictional_character said:

@Vincent S That's interesting. I asked because I'm skeptical that you can achieve a state of consciousness in wich body sensation and perception dissapear.

You can most certainly achieve no body sensation. Otherwise we would not have so many people talking about formless jhana. I was having minor surgery on my toe in the middle of an extremely painful allergic reaction to a numbing agent when all bodily sensations first disappeared for me. 
 

No body sensations alone is not the same as cessation though, but there are no bodily sensations or perception in cessation. 

[Vincent S]

1 hour ago, fictional_character said:

@Vincent S That's interesting. I asked because I'm skeptical that you can achieve a state of consciousness in wich body sensation and perception dissapear.

For me they dissapeared. But were shown to be Nothing as well. Its like seing your insides. But its an entire hollow Universe in there. Its quite a remarkable thing to witness. 
Instead of looking ”outside”, which we normally do, you are look so inwardly, that every layer of an ”outside” is seen through. 
If you have ever seen a picture of the “edges” of the Universe: At the edges there are these “web” shaped boarders.Your body “boarders” are seen as just that.  And seen through. 

33 minutes ago, vladorion said:

What Vincent described is not a cessation. Cessation is not a state of consciousness because in cessation there is no consciousness. You only know about it retrospectively.

You are right. But there are levels to this. And I just remembered my first 2CB trip. 
Where everything around my sense perception and field of view disappeared completely. And consciousness was completely gone. Complete Void. And this was only recognized when consciousness came back. It felt like a complete reboot of everything. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Vincent S

[Explorer_42]

@softlyblossoming yes I've heard of stream entry - got into Buddhism in Uni but after that I've lost my way for some time due to working 14-16hrs a day to get my life sorted. But I've been listening to dhamma talks, Alan Watts, Ram Dass, Leo etc. for a while.

This whole experience brought me back to Buddhism cause the things I've "lost" perfectly matched what Buddha described in "10 fetters" namely 1,2,3,5. But it revealed how strong the desire for rebirth and sensory experiences there is in me. Much stronger now since everything is absolutely perfect (in what we often perceive as imperfections).

[softlyblossoming]

 

@Explorer_42 The amplification of the fourth and sixth fetters is intriguing. Thanks for being so open and specific about your attainment and how it affected the fetters. My big goal in spirituality is to achieve stream entry, so may I ask: what techniques/technologies/practices and items of contemplation do you believe led the most to your first awakening?

[Explorer_42]

@softlyblossoming

I think the amplification is just a perception. It's more like it's always been there but because of all the other clutter at the forefront it wasn't as obvious.

I was in a very bad place at the time and "taking a step back" proven to be very helpful. Ajhan Brahm teaching on few bad bricks not making a bad wall helped a lot. 

Deep investigation of what is a thought and where does it come from is pretty powerful. Leads to detachment from it and results in direct alleviation of daily suffering. (Leo got a really good video on it)

Whatever negative emotions occurs in your life, take a second to investigate where does this "thing" come from. After a while of this practice it becomes second nature of " oh here's sensation of frustration, it arises and then goes away". It's a bit like pulling your "self" (whatever you identify it with) a step back from the stream of thought's and emotions and simply observing it without judgement. It can be done all the time on daily basis so your life becomes constant meta-meditation/mantra.

Listening to wide variety of teachings/teachers - they're all just talking about the same "diamond of infinite facets" but each person is looking at it through a different facet. So some teachers will resonate better with you than others. Look for that underlying universal thing - that's the truth. 

I know it's gonna sound hippie but surrounding yourself with positive messages (dhamma) on daily basis attune the mind to the thing it's looking for. I guess calm mind is easier to observe.

Psychedelics helped me dissolve the "solidity" of the reality. I've only done DMT/LSD/Mushies a handful of times(15 total) but I've always had a deep respect for those experiences so I've took long breaks in between. From the perspective of time I'd recommend DMT the most. It's the most powerful but less frightening to begin with, as it doesn't last long and can be reloaded multiple times in each session. 

Different substances work differently for everyone from observation of me and my colleagues. So don't work yourself over if you don't experience what your friend does. 

 

[softlyblossoming]

@Explorer_42 Thank you. This has been really helpful.