Illusory Nature Of Thought

[Guest username]

Reflecting and becoming conscious of the fact that we live in our illusions, our self-constructed narratives, the bundles of sensory experience and thought stories has really helped me cope with difficulties in every area of life. I can't believe I used to think that stuff was all reality. Just stories and feelings.

 

One way I like to implement this practically is by deconstructing a particular experience into components.  Let's say I get lied to by someone I cared about:

- I become conscious (important distinction between becoming conscious and reciting some belief) that my relationship with that person is a thought.

-The idea of the other person is a thought.

-The idea of myself is a thought.

-The negative feelings which may cause me to resent the other person are coming from the body, and independent of thought they have no context.

-I examine each physiological sensation distinctly instead of being overwhelmed by an amorphous bundle of bad sensation.

- I stay present with the sensations and work on releasing them; I like to do deep breathing for this.

- I ground myself in direct experience to free myself from the suffering caused by the mind.

Edited January 16, 2017 by username

[Tancrede Pouyat]

Here's something that really helped me out with feelings: they're all on the same playing field. They're all just sensations. The feeling of anger is just a feeling, the feeling of hunger is just a feeling, the feeling of love is just a feeling. And the idea that there are some that are bad and others better is completely groundless. There's really no point in trying to get rid of depression and have more peace of mind.

And that's the same thing with other people's behavior. I mean, if you examine carefully what "other people's behavior" is, you realize that they're just sounds, sights, and maybe touches. Now, I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's the same as, say, a table or your bed, because they're still people capable of suffering. But, at least, put all human behavior on the same playing field. Which means that terrorism is just as bad as someone agreeing to marry you, which is also just as bad as someone helping you to become enlightened - all human behavior, all capable of creating suffering (depending on how you interpret them, because you're 100% responsible for your entire life).

[Dodo]

4 minutes ago, Tancrede Pouyat said:

Here's something that really helped me out with feelings: they're all on the same playing field. They're all just sensations. The feeling of anger is just a feeling, the feeling of hunger is just a feeling, the feeling of love is just a feeling. And the idea that there are some that are bad and others better is completely groundless. There's really no point in trying to get rid of depression and have more peace of mind.

And that's the same thing with other people's behavior. I mean, if you examine carefully what "other people's behavior" is, you realize that they're just sounds, sights, and maybe touches. Now, I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's the same as, say, a table or your bed, because they're still people capable of suffering. But, at least, put all human behavior on the same playing field. Which means that terrorism is just as bad as someone agreeing to marry you, which is also just as bad as someone helping you to become enlightened - all human behavior, all capable of creating suffering (depending on how you interpret them, because you're 100% responsible for your entire life).

Yes they are all feelings, but how come is it groundless for some to be better than others? 

Ofcourse some are better, nobody wants to feel hungry, even if it is just a sensation. It's pain, any pain is worse than any pleasure.

Just because one does not create story around pain to lead to more suffering doesn't mean that he wouldn't change that pain in an instant if given the opportunity. 

 

[Tancrede Pouyat]

4 hours ago, Dodoster said:

Just because one does not create story around pain to lead to more suffering doesn't mean that he wouldn't change that pain in an instant if given the opportunity.

I agree with that. But that doesn't mean that pain is worse than pleasure.

4 hours ago, Dodoster said:

how come is it groundless for some to be better than others?

Everything is groundless. Sensations are just there for themselves, not for what you think they represent. Sensations are just sensations, what you call pain is just another sensation, but you think that it represents pain. But it doesn't.

Now, I think it's still important to label your sensations because it can help you become more mindful of them. In the same way that both Bordeaux and some japanese wine could be both just called wine, but differentiating the two helps you realize that they're extremely different.

But that labeling is completely groundless (which doesn't mean that you absolutely need to stop labeling), and it can backfire on you if you take it too far. In my experience, moralizing and saying that certain sensations are better than others is taking it too far, and will backfire.

[OKO]

On 1/16/2017 at 10:36 AM, Tancrede Pouyat said:

I agree with that. But that doesn't mean that pain is worse than pleasure.

Everything is groundless. Sensations are just there for themselves, not for what you think they represent. Sensations are just sensations, what you call pain is just another sensation, but you think that it represents pain. But it doesn't.

Now, I think it's still important to label your sensations because it can help you become more mindful of them. In the same way that both Bordeaux and some japanese wine could be both just called wine, but differentiating the two helps you realize that they're extremely different.

But that labeling is completely groundless (which doesn't mean that you absolutely need to stop labeling), and it can backfire on you if you take it too far. In my experience, moralizing and saying that certain sensations are better than others is taking it too far, and will backfire.

I think what you're referring to (in saying, "label your sensations because it can help you become more mindful of them.") is to better translate them. For example, people often say, "I know what I mean but I can't put it into words"... when actually they are merely words they haven't translated into more widely used language like English, Spanish, etc.

The idea is to, if you can't translate something, memorize it's attributes and maybe write them down until you can find how to express them. Sometimes it is that content (what they can't express) that they overlook; it is that side of their intellect which escapes the public eye... because it isn't translated.