Does me taking infinite forms imply that others will be experienced by me?

[Parashakti]

Hello everyone. I have a question. I understand that I am infinite being that has no other and dreaming this whole thing. So, I am the only conscious being and others are my imagination. But my infinity implies all possible finitudes. So, I will take infinite forms. That means, at one point, I will take, let's say, the form of my mother also. Even though right now only I am dreaming and my mother has no experience of her own, because I will take infinite forms, including my mother, does that mean that my mother will have her own experience when I will be dreaming her and be the only conscious being in the form of my mother? And if so, in a sense, is it safe to say that all beings have their own experience, but just when the absolute dreamer dreams them? Or now I am dreaming my mother and I, The Self, will never experience her bubble and it's pure imagination? Thank you

[RMQualtrough]

You will need to pay 50K for this sort of wisdom. Cough up squirt.

[Nahm]

You’ve darn near believed everything you’ve heard. ?  “Forms”. ? ? ? 

You’re killing me! 

? ? 

[Breakingthewall]

@Parashakti don't be a believer man, If you want to be of a religion, become a Christian, or a Buddhist, they are tested. leoist of solipism takes you to the madhouse

[Parashakti]

I don't want to be a believer, I want to trust only my direct experience, not even Leo. But I give Leo a higher probability of being right and guide me because I feel that is the right direction. But again, I don't believe anything absolutely untill I experience it. By asking Leo's advice, I just give it a higher probability of what's true to not waste time in wrong directions. The blind spot I have is: If I take infinite forms, doesn't that imply the form of my friend also for example? And at some point, won't I be experiencing him? It's not that I am a believer, I'm open to both perspectives, they both seem plausible to me and I would like an explanation to my specific blindspot

[Nahm]

@Parashakti

? 

[Inliytened1]

@Parashakti her bubble is pure imagination and is only a part of this dream, of your dream as God.  But you are the eternal Dreamer and the possibilities are endless as to what you can dream.   In a dream at night you don't wake up and wonder if you will experience the POV of your dad that was talking to you when you were assleep in the dream.  The dream is just gone.  The next night you dream again- something completely new.

[RMQualtrough]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

In a dream at night you don't wake up and wonder if you will experience the POV of your dad that was talking to you when you were assleep in the dream.  The dream is just gone.  The next night you dream again- something completely new.

Right, time is not experienced except through consciousness, if a person ends, time is not experienced. When a new dream might start, the experience of that new dream will be literally instant as a result.

What Leo is saying is that your dad never has a POV ever, on any level at all. This is what he is telling people right now. He thinks you stab him (Leo's body) and pain happens, but stab your dad and no pain happens.

I think you are communicating the idea of the same exact entity experiencing anything, regardless of who it is happening to, without that extra factor.

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Right, time is not experienced except through consciousness, if a person ends, time is not experienced. When a new dream might start, the experience of that new dream will be literally instant as a result.

What Leo is saying is that your dad never has a POV ever, on any level at all. 

And what I am telling u is the very same thing.  You can expand your consciousness and realize your dad is no different then the rock outside your house.  It is all dream stuff.  You are only conscious thing in existence.  You are the field of consciousness.  You saw this for yourself on a DMT trip, it's just that now its too crazy and insane to accept.  And thats right.  For the ego it is.  Because if you were to become directly conscious of this again what the hell would be the point of talking to yourself?  You'd go insane.  That's why God went to extraordinary measures to.keep you in the illusion.  To.keep you in a limited state of consciousness.  It's not meant to see what we saw really - it spoils the game

 

[RMQualtrough]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

And what I am telling u is the very same thing.  You can expand your consciousness and realize your dad is no different then the rock outside your house.  It is all dream stuff.  You are only conscious thing in existence.  You are the field of consciousness.  You saw this for yourself on a DMT trip, it's just that now its too crazy and insane to accept.  And thats right.  For the ego it is.  Because if you were to become directly conscious of this again what the hell would be the point of talking to yourself?  That's why God went to extraordinary measures to.keep you in the illusion.  To.keep you in a limited state of consciousness.  It's not meant to see what's behind the scenes really - it spoils the game

There is a slight difference... Both angles defer any form to imagination, so every element of your dad like the way he looks, things he says, etc, is ultimately imaginary... Leo's extra step is that not only is that the case, but you (as the only conscious being in existence) never experience what your "dad" claims to be experiencing. Or in more obvious terms, when your dad says he sees, he's a lying NPC.

This what you say, and what I experience, is more akin to a notion of what Rupert Spira might teach, whereby upon death the apparent walls of a room (which would be your "self") dissolve. Or how I might say it, which is that it is somewhat like being a person is being "Brahman" looking through the mask of a human being and identity. When the mask of the human is gone, there is just Brahman... Experientially a mockery of monks and whatever else, as they are wasting their lives meditating when all of that spiritual practice must by necessity die to reveal "Brahman".

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

There is a slight difference... Both angles defer any form to imagination, so every element of your dad like the way he looks, things he says, etc, is ultimately imaginary... Leo's extra step is that not only is that the case, but you (as the only conscious being in existence) never experience what your "dad" claims to be experiencing. Or in more obvious terms, when your dad says he sees, he's a lying NPC.

 

He's not lying.  Remember it's within the context of the dream and hes speaking to you within the context of the dream..  Relatively speaking he has his own experience but that is within the dream.  When you wake up, it is realized that all was behind held.within your own mind.  Your dad had no experience outside of your own mind.  But you went meta and stepped outside the entire dream.

 

[RMQualtrough]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

He's not lying.  Remember it's within the context of the dream.  Relatively speaking he has his own experience but that is within the dream.  When you wake up, it is realized that all was behind held.within your own mind.  Your dad has no experience outside of your own mind

Yep you understand exactly what I mean now. Leo does not believe your dad, even relatively speaking, has experience. Not just that your dad's experience is inside your own mind, but that he straight up doesn't have one and neither do you. That ONLY Leo does.

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Yep you understand exactly what I mean now. Leo does not believe your dad, even relatively speaking, has experience. Not just that your dad's experience is inside your own mind, but that he straight up doesn't have one and neither do you. That ONLY Leo does.

I don't think you do.  I'm saying he never had his own experience it was just something being imagined within the dream.   It was not actual.  It was imaginary.  Just like I'm imagining yours right now.

[RMQualtrough]

10 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I don't think you do.  I'm saying he never had his own experience it was just something being imagined within the dream.   It was not actual.  It was imaginary.  Just like I'm imagining yours right now.

That is not the same as what Leo preaches. For Leo you can't see. You're just a prop, he could stab you and it's like stabbing the ground, no pain happens period. Only if he, Leo, is stabbed, does pain happen.

It's so easy to see the difference, between all experience being within your mind, vs the experience had by you being the end of...

The only way to not see the obvious difference in stance is to purposefully play with words, when what is being said is so blatant. Basically mix and matching absolute and relative terms to be manipulative. "All experience IS had by you!" "You? I didn't mean you, I meant you!"

Edited February 19, 2022 by RMQualtrough

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, RMQualtrough said:

For Leo you can't see. You're just a prop, he could stab you and it's like stabbing the ground, no pain happens period. Only if he, Leo, is stabbed, does pain happen

It means if I stab you, I'm stabbing myself. you do not exist, you are just an idea in my mind. but I don't exist, I'm just an idea of your mind. we are literally the same. exact, nailed, doing a magic trick involving time, movement and multiplicity. high five, because you are me, exactly, without nuances, right now. It's quite horrible, right?

Edited February 19, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[RMQualtrough]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It means if I stab you, I'm stabbing myself. you do not exist, you are just an idea in my mind. but I don't exist, I'm just an idea of your mind. we are literally the same. exact, nailed, doing a magic trick involving time, movement and multiplicity. high five, because you are me, exactly, without nuances, right now. It's quite horrible, right?

Yeah, I mean it would take half a second to clear the difference, as you did just now. It was quite horrible for me during some periods. NOTHING worse than the two bad DMT trips I had, but horrifying revelations. I immediately escaped back into reality via some Netflix.

After the trip which caused me to research monism, I was "out of it" for quite a while. That was unpleasant indeed, there is nothing nice about feeling one with random cars passing by and such. The fact is, this society is not crafted in such a way to where you can live in that mode in harmony. The way society is set up creates an extreme juxtaposition between an "enlightened" mode of being, and functioning within that society. You simply cannot function in normal modern society sitting around in a circle meditating all day. You cannot connect with any of your peers (AKA, as you would say, other elements of yourself). It was probably different in ancient Asia.

The Gorillaz song "Feel Good Inc" is actually about that. The floating island represents "real" happiness, and everyone is stuck in the hedonist tower of quick dopamine surges from sex and drugs etc.

[Breakingthewall]

14 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

That was unpleasant indeed, there is nothing nice about feeling one with random cars passing by and such. The fact is, this society is not crafted in such a way to where you can live in that mode in harmony. The way society is set up creates an extreme juxtaposition between an "enlightened" mode of being, and functioning within that society. You simply cannot function in normal modern society sitting around in a circle meditating all day.

it depends, I think that the closer you, as an ego, get to be aware or the truth, everything acquires a more authentic, luminous quality (that's why enlightened), joy, although at first it may be horrible like being alone. on the other hand, the more you you walk away, everything becomes more strange, sinister, lifeless, terrifying, sad. so for practical reasons, there is only one way. that you end up isolated from society? I don't think it's a necessary condition, but if it were, I prefer that to living in madness

[RMQualtrough]

27 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

it depends, I think that the closer you, as an ego, get to be aware or the truth, everything acquires a more authentic, luminous quality (that's why enlightened), joy, although at first it may be horrible like being alone. on the other hand, the more you you walk away, everything becomes more strange, sinister, lifeless, terrifying, sad. so for practical reasons, there is only one way. that you end up isolated from society? I don't think it's a necessary condition, but if it were, I prefer that to living in madness

A lot of people manage to make it to the end of a pretty normal existence, and pass without event. That's probably ideal. In ancient Asia, living conditions were probably appalling and trash, and "spirituality" was part of culture. If a man went and meditated in a cave for a few months he'd have a bunch of followers. Now such a person could not really connect with an everyday person. You can't really understand people's egoic desires etc. and thus can't connect with them.

It feels weird as fuck. Probably is why monks actually go and live in isolation in the mountains or whatever.

I doubt it's possible to be completely dissolved into "there" and still be functional. For a monk even, they are as "there" as a random murderer. "There" removes all aspects of selfhood such that anything remaining is equal; any element of selfhood like being a spiritual leader, murderous dictator, whatever else, is literally gone. Completely and totally gone. And of course when the entire mask is gone, the same exact "being-ness" remains, unadulterated by self.

I can't imagine being in a state like that and like, pumping iron at the gym, getting stylish haircuts, chatting up women at bars, discussing sports cars, etc. Lol. I mean I can't really imagine even reading books or whatever other "peaceful" activity. But our societies are built around commercialism and ego.

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

lot of people manage to make it to the end of a pretty normal existence, and pass without event.

6 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

 

It would be necessary to see those people when the end comes, which is usually very slow nowadays, what happens in their minds. or when they are alone in a nursing home. what happens is that our society hides that very cleverly. 

5 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

doubt it's possible to be completely dissolved into "there" and still be functional. For a monk even, they are as "there" as a random murderer. "There" removes all aspects of selfhood such that anything remaining is equal; any element of selfhood like being a spiritual leader, murderous dictator, whatever else, is literally gone. Completely and totally gone. And of course when the entire mask is gone, the same exact "being-ness" remains, unadulterated by self.

I can't imagine being in a state like that and like, pumping iron at the gym, getting stylish haircuts, chatting up women at bars, discussing sports cars, etc. Lol. I mean I can't really imagine even reading books or whatever other "peaceful" activity. But our societies are built around commercialism and ego.

Agree, In the case of a total dissolution, in which there is nothing left of a separate individual, we do not know how we would react, what our place in society would be, if there were any. Are there people like this today? What do they do? trying to fuck in las vegas clubs with random girls? ?, live in caves and no one knows about them?

[RMQualtrough]

50 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It would be necessary to see those people when the end comes, which is usually very slow nowadays, what happens in their minds. or when they are alone in a nursing home. what happens is that our society hides that very cleverly. 

My grandma died in agony BUT at peace with death. She said the day she died that she had a dream, when asked what about, she said the crucifix, and giggled. Then fell back into delirium. But apart from that the death itself was okay for her.

My mom died okay except for great distress over me, as I was at the time 14. I did not see this my grandpa was the only one with her.

My uncle just collapsed dead. Got up to go lie down in bed and just died on the spot. No time for freaking out just done.

I myself almost died twice. The first with meningitis as a child. The second blackout down a flight of escalators. In both cases it was sudden and I would not have known if I just straight up died. With meningitis the moment of panic was so brief and my main focus was on quicklg calling out goodbye to my family.

You can also search AskReddit for many many stories from nurses and hospital staff. SOME patients freak out, but many really don't. Or just drop dead so suddenly they can't even react.