How to do Red Stage shadow work?

[mivafofa]

I can't stand up for myself. My boundaries are weak. I can't deal with confrontation and I coward away. People punk me around when they realize I'm not gonna retaliate anyway, or more like I can't retaliate because I don't know how to on the spot (I tend to freeze, mumble something weak then get walked all over). I care too much about not hurting others at the cost myself.  

I lack:
Displays of power
Dominance
Self-preservation
Decisiveness
Assertiveness
Black & White thinking (“If you are not with us, you are against us.”)
Acting immediately on what needs to be done in the here and now (urgent actions during survival)
Setting clear boundaries
Boldly express contentious opinions in confrontation
Faculty to confront
Freedom from constant guilt & shame
Capacity of danger & violence
Healthy sense of narcissism 
Ruthlessness

I don't want to be a victim and wail over my feelings anymore.. I want to punch back and stand up for myself.  I want "Being the Bigger Person" to be a choice, not the only option default mode. 

-------------

This wasn't well received in the past because some people in this forum thought they were beyond it and looked down on Stage Red. I'm hoping we can keep an open mind this time. 

[Michal__]

Maybe pick up some sort of martial art. And practice standing up for yourself when nessecary (which is something you can do pretty often). But don´t overdo it.

[mivafofa]

@Michal__  thx but I practice martial arts already... That's literally my thing.  Standing up for myself is not a physical limitation but a mental block

And I can't overdo smthg I don't even do in the first place

Edited February 19, 2022 by mivafofa

[Arje]

37 minutes ago, mivafofa said:

I can't stand up for myself. My boundaries are weak. I can't deal with confrontation and I coward away. People punk me around when they realize I'm not gonna retaliate anyway, or more like I can't retaliate because I don't know how to on the spot (I tend to freeze, mumble something weak then get walked all over). I care too much about not hurting others at the cost myself.  

This is so mentally frustrating and what ends up happening is you pulling the toxic folks around you because they quickly notice your inability to say no, witch easily leads to them trying to use you. I'm trying to figure this out too.

 

Best of luck for you.

 

[Nahm]

@mivafofa

Meditate. Allow the beliefs about yourself, the activity of thought, to settle. Then the discord won’t be felt. ?

Express how you really feel. Don’t hold it in with the beliefs. 

There’s nothing to solve because there’s already nothing wrong with you. 

Just beliefs to let go of, by no longer feeding the beliefs attention. 

You are not a thing which has feelings. 

You are feeling. And what feels so off, to you, feeling, are all the beliefs about what you are. 

You are none of those beliefs.

You are feeling. 

?

You belief you lack, because you listen to information and content… that you lack. 

Lack isn’t in feeling or perception. 

[mivafofa]

@Arje exactly.. you got it.

@Nahm thx but i'm asking for Stage RED shadow work.. I think you might be skipping steps ahead. Advanced techniques without having incorporating the basics of brutal survival can be counter-productive

[Nahm]

@mivafofa

‘Brutal survival’ is conceptual, and is aversion. 

All conjecture and dogma empties in meditation. 

‘Stage red shadow work’ is a misnomer. 

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/self-referential-thoughts

[puporing]

Is it possible that you hold some negative beliefs around being assertive? Labels like "bad", "bitchy", "difficult", "tense", "selfish", etc. Maybe these kinds of labels are holding you back from being assertive. Often people use guilt tactics on us which reinforces those kinds of labels and keeps us trapped in not speaking out/take actions.

One could start by reframing one's intention for being assertive such as "I am honoring my values", "I am just as deserving of love and understanding as the other". 

Another aspect is to welcome the 'aloneness' this may bring on and confront any fears you may have about what people might say or do. Easier said than done but I've been there .

[mivafofa]

@puporing Yes I'm thinking about it and I think that's a factor

I need to learn how to let go of the fear..
Of being an asshole
Of being unreasonable
Of being unprofessional
Of stating my needs
Of the consequences from speaking up

[itachi uchiha]

if u want to develop stage red then do the following

 

learn boxing/kickboxing/judo/muaythai

 read and apply 33 strategies of war and 48 laws of power by robert greene

 

to master the physical side of stage red then learn boxing + judo

if u want to master the mental side of stage red then read and apply the 185 books i mention below

https://www.reddit.com/r/The48LawsOfPower/comments/8ye7a6/gaining_and_maintaining_power_the_official/

[kai0]

its a comfort zone and first barrier problem. do it once break that barrier and you will become more comfortable doing it again dont need no theories no preparations or anything. just do it it will not be perfect at first but do it anyway do it poorly do it and suck it will hurt you but that doesnt matter

[mivafofa]

@kai0 yeah I agree... I guess to learn the skill of drastic actions less thinking, is to start by taking actions lol..

 

2 hours ago, itachi uchiha said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/The48LawsOfPower/comments/8ye7a6/gaining_and_maintaining_power_the_official/

 

Jesus f christ!! i never knew there were books about exactly that. I looked through some of them quickly, this is legit!  I read the chapter titles and they're scaring me already ngl, cuz I've literally programmed myself to do the exact opposite of what it's advocating.  I just bought the 48 laws of Power and The Prince by Machiavelli audiobooks as a starter. thx dude I'm both scared and feeling hopeful to tackle this

[itachi uchiha]

@mivafofa the books are legit. wish u a wonderful journey. always do not forget where u started. do not use the wisdom in the books for evil purposes. always use it for self defense . never harm a soul. do u want the other person to suffer like u r suffering now. with that being said, there are some people who are evil and u should crush them, destroy them

 

all the best

[vizual]

Look at yourself from the third person and recognize that you are worthy to stand up for yourself. You probably wouldn’t hesitate to stand up for someone else if you saw them being abused or assaulted. You must see yourself in that same way, don’t hesitate to stand up for yourself as you would for someone else. You have value as a person and you deserve decency and respect. And learn how to do that, because it’s probably going to take a little bit of time to integrate it successfully

[Tangerinedream]

On 19/02/2022 at 10:25 AM, mivafofa said:

I can't stand up for myself. My boundaries are weak. I can't deal with confrontation and I coward away. People punk me around when they realize I'm not gonna retaliate anyway, or more like I can't retaliate because I don't know how to on the spot (I tend to freeze, mumble something weak then get walked all over). I care too much about not hurting others at the cost myself.  

I lack:
Displays of power
Dominance
Self-preservation
Decisiveness
Assertiveness
Black & White thinking (“If you are not with us, you are against us.”)
Acting immediately on what needs to be done in the here and now (urgent actions during survival)
Setting clear boundaries
Boldly express contentious opinions in confrontation
Faculty to confront
Freedom from constant guilt & shame
Capacity of danger & violence
Healthy sense of narcissism 
Ruthlessness

I don't want to be a victim and wail over my feelings anymore.. I want to punch back and stand up for myself.  I want "Being the Bigger Person" to be a choice, not the only option default mode. 

-------------

This wasn't well received in the past because some people in this forum thought they were beyond it and looked down on Stage Red. I'm hoping we can keep an open mind this time. 

I don’t think these things you listed are about being stage red per se. Actually, I think this is more about developing healthy masculine traits and feeling more empowered as a woman.  People in general who possess more feminine traits lack these positive masculine ones.  If there is no balance then that is when you develop shadow feminine traits like lack of assertiveness and weak boundaries.    

You can be in stage red and still not possess these qualities you speak of.  For example a stage red woman might have weak boundaries and be a doormat to an aggressive and abusive stage red man whilst she is also engaging in toxic behaviour. Then as she learns to stand up for herself and develops more strong boundaries I think especially for women these assertive qualities develop more in stage orange along with feminine empowerment.  
 

i grew up in a stage red environment and still didn’t learn assertiveness or how to deal with confrontation or standing up for myself.  I was still misbehaving and rebelling against authority whilst being quiet as a mouse and having morals.  But this also has to do with the fact my mother was very stage blue and also feared confrontation so she passed that on to us. 
 

what I suggest you do is read or listen to some positive, non-aggressive feminist podcasts etc.  to help you with feeling more empowered as a woman and help you develop those masculine traits.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Tangerinedream

[Nahm]

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/the-emotional-scale

[BlueOak]

Argue a lot with people who push your boundaries. Try to create boundaries in areas of your life until real ones exist. 
Try to work out what a natural boundary is by example of the collective (Blue), and draw on that experience in how you react to others.

Red is about you. YOU. What you want. What you need. Leveraging collective experience (Blue) to put you first. Be selfish for awhile. Treat yourself. Gradually Learn how to treat yourself and be selfish without harming others. (Bit of Green but cant hurt :D).

I had a lot of boundary issues from abuse, and still time to time find unconscious parts of myself that i am acting on for a reason not relevant to the conversation I am having. Identifying those triggers, traumas or wounds that stop you being you, why they exist, how they came about is crucial. How can you be yourself if you are not in control of yourself. 

Example: When you feel those knots inside or your chest getting tight, work out what just happened, if a boundary was actually violated or if its you responding to something from your past.

1) Strength, Exercise. Breathe.
2) What are you working on right now for you? How can you make it yours more. 
3) Get around people who are not fragile. Who you can disagree with and stay with you. Support yourself (Blue) within others systems. In this model Red is great but its only healthy when its attached to blue.
4) Finally realise selfishness is selflessness too at times, and when you get to that point of realisation its okay to be Red, its a necessary important part of what you are. You may think it right now but until you get there in life its only a thought.

I still have red shadow, nowhere near as much. Boundaries and the integration of selfishness are mostly done. Standing up for myself is done, and the severity required when I do is mostly done. This is red me talking :D. Me Me Me. Now You You You. Good luck! I would say work on procastination but I am terrible at it, so I will leave that for someone else to advise you on. 

*Oh and daily ritual you can rely on to build trust within yourself and begin to depend on yourself, for me that's the best part of purple in this model. As simple as exercise, to planning, to morning meditation etc.

Edited February 21, 2022 by BlueOak

[ValiantSalvatore]

@mivafofa I did a shit ton of stage red shadow work with the 3-2-1 process. It did help me to include a lot of negative qualities and to own them. For instance my arrogance as well as being fine being seen as asshole and feeling the pain of it. There are many shadow work tools. I still have the same issue with assertivness and dominance. 

Personally it helped me with integrating my hate and sometimes owning it, arrogance etc. There are also golden shadows for example stuff that you admire about another person and you could never think of being that way. You most likely have that quality and are denying it. For me for example I almost admired very intelligent people, I still do and I often heavily cripple myself in terms of my capabilities out of fear or self-hatred. I really had to own it that others in my real life persona see me as intelligent and capeable. This still is an issue I run into.

That is the opposite of having only negative shadow elements, there are also postive golden shadows or projections. 

There is also retroflection https://www.quora.com/What-is-retroflection-in-Gestalt-therapy

Basically you turn the energy or the shadow projection against your self. Self-hatred is a good example imo. The energy is used in an absolutely deconstructive manner and causes harm. 

This is the last book I've read on traumas called The Body Keeps the Score: Mind, Brain and Body in the Transformation of Trauma. It's more of an scientific perspective showing how soldiers in vietnam overcame their trauma and the entire history of how trauma was studied mainly, which modalities where used, their family lives, how they coped with their traumas. What worked etc. What is used in therapy etc. 

For me personally I'll utilize exercise although out of this book as a modality for shadow work as it's the most convenient and makes me feel the most alive and integrated. Especially cardio currently. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[Adam M]

MAGIC MUSHROOMS

[mivafofa]

On 2/20/2022 at 4:00 AM, itachi uchiha said:

always do not forget where u started. do not use the wisdom in the books for evil purposes. always use it for self defense . never harm a soul. do u want the other person to suffer like u r suffering now. 

Lol it's so funny because the first thing most people would assume is that I'm just about to be corrupted or permanently regressed, open some Pandora box or some shit that I cannot revert back, when truthfully this study can only make me more whole as a person. If anything, it'll finally help me understand and detect precisely what people do to me and eloquently call them out so I can protect myself better.

 

@vizual it's the type of advice I always give to others but that I cannot manage to preach myself haha damnit..

 

@Tangerinedream Yes well pointed out for the lack of masculine traits. I don't see why it's "not Stage Red per se" however.  Stage red, orange and yellow are known to be male driven energy.  Stage Red is dominantly masculine. I created a shadow of Stage Red which involves some masculine traits.  There are several masculine traits in stage Orange and some other stages as well but none of them are posing a problem at the moment like Red does. 

I also grew up in a Stage Red environment.  You'd think it'd make me grow a pair, some claws and teeth... But instead I went aaall the other end of the spectrum. For my survival, I had to make myself small, nearly invisible and let myself be taken advantaged of.  Love the parent who hurt me, empathize and forgive.  It's so ingrained in me that I literally care about the wellbeing of others at the cost of myself. The more they're hurting me, the more I try give more love because I know that's what they're ultimately lacking.  And people likes that cuz it benefits them. Good for them that I don't know how to retaliate or defend myself.  All I know is to send love, forgiveness and compassion.  People wants me to stay pure.  But this doesn't benefits ME.  Without thorns I can't bloom my rose.

On 2/20/2022 at 4:50 AM, Tangerinedream said:

what I suggest you do is read or listen to some positive, non-aggressive feminist podcasts etc.

This is too passive and easy for me to do.

 

@BlueOak Interesting.. Thank you. I'll give it a try. It's true by comfort zone I'd usually surround myself around people who I can get along, therefore I don't face confrontation.

 

@ValiantSalvatore hum that's very thought-provoking... thanks. This seems like a challenging practice. glad to see I'm not the only one doing Stage Red shadow work 

 

@Adam M funny you mention I literally ordered some last night