Canada Has Now Frozen Bank Accounts of Convoy Supporters

[Yarco]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergencies-act-banks-ottawa-protests-1.6353968

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60383385

This is insane to me. I don't see how this can accomplish anything except create thousands of enraged people who now literally have nothing to lose. 

Not just people participating in the protest, but even people who donated to the GoFundMe or other donation platforms are having their bank accounts frozen and credit cards cancelled without warning.

[Roy]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

That's the problem with the right-wing leaning freedumb types, they reach and reach and reach and reach and reach into the cookie jar. Then when they finally get their hand slapped they go, "SEEEEEE!!! Look tyranny!" You know who operates under the same mentality? Children.

They are upset about the rules, mandates and lockdowns. Maybe things weren't done perfectly, that's a fair criticism, but some sort of position had to be taken, and things were going to suck no matter what to some degree. The reality is if the Conservatives were in charge during this pandemic many many more people would have died, and ironically the responses that would have had to be taken to respond would have damaged the economy more than anything that's been implemented so far.

If you study Spiral Dynamics or history in general it won't take long for you to notice things inevitably develop towards the left and NOT the right. That's not a coincidence. It's because left leaning worldviews are fundamentally more holistic and cognitively apt. They are able to have a greater range of things to consider and therefore plan accordingly, even if it's unpopular or counterintuitive.

[puporing]

I have sympathy for them and the need to be heard and I believe they have been heard. It was prob not a pure coincidence that provinces suddenly seemed to accelerate the process of lifting restrictions since the protests began. Trudeau may have a touch of the pride to acknowledge and not demonize the other side which I think would've calmed things down more quickly. But yeah at the same time the restrictions were largely made around the capacity of the publicly funded healthcare system. Hopefully this is all going to end soon. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by puporing

[Johnny Galt]

@Roy Yes, there are conservatives and right wingers who are a part of the movement, but that don't mean that it's their movement nor that they are the representatives.  

I've seen indigenous, sihks, nunavut, africans, and other minorities who support this. There are many sihks who are truckers. I saw footage of a chinese woman crying for joy and thanking some in the convoy. She even said she had donated to the cause online; she came from China and was freaked out with our government's actions as it worried her that it reminded her of the CCP. 

This is messy and so lets be cautious with casting labels on what this is. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Johnny Galt

[vladorion]

4 hours ago, Roy said:

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

That's the problem with the right-wing leaning freedumb types, they reach and reach and reach and reach and reach into the cookie jar. Then when they finally get their hand slapped they go, "SEEEEEE!!! Look tyranny!" You know who operates under the same mentality? Children.

You came up with a very bad analogy in your attempt to paint all anti-mandate people as children.

It's interesting how you always make it about conservatives. As if whenever someone disagrees with vaccine mandates, they're automatically a "right wing leaning freedumb type". Lol. There are plenty of non-conservative people who don't agree with it.

[SgtPepper]

nah I don't think its right for a government to take your money. its kind of nutso, even though it probably won't be anything serious, its the principle of it.

[AuroraDream]

Its awful that they would do that. Glad its waking people up though

[Roy]

4 hours ago, vladorion said:

in your attempt to paint all anti-mandate people as children.

I didn't attempt to paint "all" of them as children, just the ones who don't know when to stop and go home, and look like children as a consequence.

Notice how your suspicion and assumption about my possible intentions to paint "all" anti-vax/mandate people as one way or the other is a projection of your own attitude towards the subject being a black and white, us vs them situation.

You can try to pull me into your game, good try, but I'm not going to play it.

6 hours ago, Johnny Galt said:

I've seen indigenous, sihks, nunavut, africans, and other minorities who support this.

This is irrelevant. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it. It has to do with behavior. I don't care how many of the protesters are hooded black men waving glocks, or fat white rednecks waving .22 caliber rifles, that means nothing to me. What matters is the ideology, what narrative they support, and what actions they are willing to take (or not).

There may be some statistical correlation between certain religious/ethnic groups and political identity, but that isn't the factor we need to prioritize. In fact it's kind of useless and just serves as fuel and talking points for racists. Not saying you're racist at all by the way, I assume if you're on this forum you're a well intended person.

I'm saying "right-wing" because it's abundantly clear from their talking points and attitudes in on the ground interviews that label is appropriate. I'm not calling them right-wing because the overwhelming majority of them happen to be white lol.

[Sucuk Ekmek]

3 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

this is nothing but it just shows a much larger problem of govt vs people thats been going on for so long.....if the govt can hold onto "your" money is it really yours?

 Yeah, pretty much that. You have no right for power. Let them decide for you and let them update your thoughts like a smart product. This is enslavement of human spirit. 

[vladorion]

10 hours ago, Roy said:

I didn't attempt to paint "all" of them as children, just the ones who don't know when to stop and go home, and look like children as a consequence.

So you attempted to paint all the people that are still protesting as children. I don't see a big difference. They don't look like children to me, because I'm not projecting my own childishness onto them. (See what I did here?)

The protests have a purpose so it doesn't make sense for them to say, "ok, enough is enough, let's go home".

Quote

You can try to pull me into your game, good try, but I'm not going to play it.

Lol. Ok

[Roy]

10 minutes ago, vladorion said:

The protests have a purpose

Yes they do, and while that purpose may seem noble it's also misguided and stupid. We don't have unlimited freedom, we never have. Nobody can just do whatever they want, there is an ongoing capacity on how we are allowed to behave in society.

If you want actual freedom buy a plane ticket and go live in Liberia, I hear it's great there.

[vladorion]

18 minutes ago, Roy said:

Yes they do, and while that purpose may seem noble it's also misguided and stupid. We don't have unlimited freedom, we never have. Nobody can just do whatever they want, there is an ongoing capacity on how we are allowed to behave in society.

If you want actual freedom buy a plane ticket and go live in Liberia, I hear it's great there.

Of course nobody can do whatever they want. But they can peacefully protest. In no way is it against the law. In fact the right to peacefully protest is a part of Canadian democracy. I don't know where you got the idea that they're doing something that's not allowed. 

[axiom]

The Universal Declaration on Bioethics and Human Rights states as follows:

"Any preventive, diagnostic and therapeutic medical intervention is only to be carried out with the prior, free and informed consent of the person concerned, based on adequate information. The consent should, where appropriate, be express and may be withdrawn by the person concerned at any time and for any reason without disadvantage or prejudice."

Make of that what you will. I think Trudeau is toast personally.

[Yarco]

"Hey now, we're all for peaceful protests. Just not in ways that might actually be effective and bring about change. Why can't you guys just hold picket signs for a couple hours and then go back home to being powerless after a couple hours like every other group. If a meaningless symbolic vote every 4 years that does nothing isn't enough for you, you're just entitled" 

Couldn't we have used the "We don't have unlimited freedom" argument against letting women vote in the past and many other things too?

The great thing about society is that it isn't static, we're allowed to change how we're "allowed to behave" if enough people get together and agree on it.

If you wanna create a new state for people like me, I'm happy to buy a ticket and go move there. But at the moment there is nowhere in the world I can go and be free. Even the Liberian constitution restricts citizenship to "Negroes or persons of Negro descent." I didn't choose to be born in this society, I didn't agree to become a Canadian citizen. It was forced upon me. If there was a way I could opt out and still retain my ability to own land and travel, I would have by now. I've looked into it. (Funnily enough, in the US you can renounce your citizenship and there are several thousand stateless people.) But there is no free land left on earth not claimed by a government where I can go and set up a libertarian / agorist utopia. Unless I want to go make a floating autonomous city in international waters.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Yarco

[Carl-Richard]

12 minutes ago, axiom said:

The Universal Declaration on Bioethics and Human Rights states as follows:

"Any preventive, diagnostic and therapeutic medical intervention is only to be carried out with the prior, free and informed consent of the person concerned, based on adequate information. The consent should, where appropriate, be express and may be withdrawn by the person concerned at any time and for any reason without disadvantage or prejudice."

Make of that what you will. I think Trudeau is toast personally.

Do I also have the right to good health and protection against disease?

[axiom]

16 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Do I also have the right to good health and protection against disease?

The right to good health is not the same as the right to be healthy. You have the right to be healthy or unhealthy as you so wish.

[Scholar]

21 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Do I also have the right to good health and protection against disease?

No of course not, that's not how rights work. You don't have a right not to get cancer.

[axiom]

Just now, Scholar said:

No of course not, that's not how rights work. You don't have a right not to get cancer.

Yep, the "right to health" is impossible to provide. It is influenced by too many factors that are outside state control, i.e. individual biological make-up, etc.

[vladorion]

31 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Do I also have the right to good health and protection against disease?

Does your right to health trump another person's right to bodily autonomy?

Do you believe other people have to modify their bodies so you can feel more protected?

Edited February 18, 2022 by vladorion

[Carl-Richard]

57 minutes ago, Scholar said:

No of course not, that's not how rights work. You don't have a right not to get cancer.

Why does the CDC exist?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_health