Many incels are misunderstood

[patricknotstar]

   It is very easy to villianize someone because that way you don't have to empathize with them, and to empathize can be painful. To feel someone's suffering, it is much easier to paint a negative image.

   A good example is incels. By definition all an incel means is to be "INvoluntarily CELibate." Many men are incel not because they are inherently bad people , or hate women but simply because of neurodivergent disorders or their appearance. Sex is ultimately the exchange of DNA and women do select men based on genetic indicators of fitness , I'm sorry but if you think only men can be superficial and care about appearances  you're severely misguided. It's not even superficial but just evolutionary instinct, sexual selection keeps the gene pool healthier and females of most species are the selectors. ( example Bonobos)

   Now i'm not saying you have to a model or millionaire to get a girlfriend, but there is definitely a threshold men must meet to enter the dating market and have any chance and some men simply don't meet it. It doesn't matter how kind , intelligent or interesting they are , simply due to circumstances out of their control they will never have much success with women. This is a reality it's not fair , brain cancer isn't fair , dwarfism isn't fair etc...

   So not all incels are bad people , some are good people who were just dealt a bad hand. The same way many men who have great success with women and dating can be horrible people. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by patricknotstar
added the last sentence

[puporing]

Yeah don't like the label either doesn't help anyone. More compassion is needed not less. 

I also wonder how many of them were given bad information on their appearance by their family of origin. That shit can feed itself forever if the internalized messaging doesn't get broken.

Edited February 17, 2022 by puporing

[roopepa]

How I see it, it's really not the involuntary celibacy that triggers hate / judgement in people, it's the misogyny, ideology, the general blaming others for ones own feelings and experiences, the self-pity.

Most people seem to project and build ideologies and prejudices though, so that's not only an incel thing, it's widespread emotional suppression and aversion. Perhaps this is just very visible in incel ideology / community for the outsiders, so they kind of fall into the same trap of projection.

14 minutes ago, patricknotstar said:

Sex is ultimately the exchange of DNA and women do select men based on genetic indicators of fitness , I'm sorry but if you think only men can be superficial and care about appearances  you're severely misguided. It's not even superficial but just evolutionary instinct, sexual selection keeps the gene pool healthier and females of most species are the selectors.

What you wrote there, is thought / belief and can be let go, if you're willing.

If you're not feeling good about you, your life and intimate / romantic relationships, I'd like to say that it is possible for you to feel great about all that stuff, if you want that.

[Federico del pueblo]

31 minutes ago, patricknotstar said:

Now i'm not saying you have to a model or millionaire to get a girlfriend, but there is definitely a threshold men must meet to enter the dating market and have any chance and some men simply don't meet it. It doesn't matter how kind , intelligent or interesting they are , simply due to circumstances out of their control they will never have much success with women. This is a reality it's not fair , brain cancer isn't fair , dwarfism isn't fair etc...

It's still excuses to a large degree.

Nobody is denying that some guys were dealt a very bad hand.

Of course, if you are short, have a weird face, autism and are really skinny (or whatever else), then dating is gonna be much harder for you.

But you can still attract some women.

It'll just take longer and require more work to get to the point where things are working out for you.

I mean just look at Owen Cook for example. He's short, bolding af, ginger and has autism (Asperger's). He still got laid by hundreds of girls.

Often your insecurities about your flaws matter more than your flaws.

Just make the best out of yourself and take action.

Also lower your standards, especially in the beginning.

If you are a 4/10 then be ok with dating 4/10 girls.

Simultaneously work on becoming a 6/10 and just keep going.

[Leo Gura]

No one ever said incels are bad people. Some of them simply create a toxic online ideology which has nothing to do with reality or truth.

Even dwarves can get laid if they go out and socialize.

Most incels can get laid, they simply have too toxic of a mindset to do the work necessary.

It's true that women will not sleep with you out of pitty. They are selective for strong men. Which you can become through hard work if you drop your toxic incel ideology.

[hamedsf]

they're not bad people, they're just lame weak-minded people.

I love how selfish genes in human beings especially in women play out. 

women hate weak males and that's a biological mechanism in order to not get impregnated by those weaklings out there.

welcome to ruthless bad-ass natural selection in my biology class. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by hamedsf

[Gregory1]

8 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

Your mind is the only threshold.

If lack of sex is your number 1 concern in life, you're a whiner in my opinion. Doesn't mean it's not an issue that should be addresed and solved, but there are a lot more important things than sex. In fact, I can think about 10 from the top of my head.

What's your number 1 then?

[patricknotstar]

8 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

Your mind is the only threshold.

If lack of sex is your number 1 concern in life, you're a whiner in my opinion. Doesn't mean it's not an issue that should be addresed and solved, but there are a lot more important things than sex. In fact, I can think about 10 from the top of my head.

if sex is so unimportant why do you partake in it. Seems patronizing to tell someone something is trivial when you yourself can't abstain from it. Practice what you preach 

[patricknotstar]

40 minutes ago, hamedsf said:

they're not bad people, they're just lame weak-minded people.

I love how selfish genes in human beings especially in women play out. 

women hate weak males and that's a biological mechanism in order to not get impregnated by those weaklings out there.

welcome to ruthless bad-ass natural selection in my biology class. 

Women also select on looks but no one addresses that here , probably because it's easier on the ego to believe what women are attracted to it based in behaviour and not genetics, because the man believes he can replicate those attractive behaviour traits , but attractive genetic traits such as height , facial bone structure etc are not in his control

[Federico del pueblo]

3 minutes ago, patricknotstar said:

Women also select on looks but no one addresses that here

3 minutes ago, patricknotstar said:

but attractive genetic traits such as height , facial bone structure etc are not in his control

But not in the way in which men do it with women.

Women favor good looks, but if you don't have ideal looks you still have decent chances to succeed if many other things are good.

It's also easier for your ego to believe that there's nothing you can do because of your looks.

Until you don't make an effort to improve yourself and become proactive with women it's gonna be very easy for you to make yourself believe it's looks what is limiting you. 

Ask yourself what you want.

If you want to become better with women then do whatever you can to improve yourself while ignoring all the limiting black pill/incel kind of ideologies.

[Hardkill]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No one ever said incels are bad people. Some of them simply create a toxic online ideology which has nothing to do with reality or truth.

Even dwarves can get laid if they go out and socialize.

Most incels can get laid, they simply have too toxic of a mindset to do the work necessary.

It's true that women will not sleep with you out of pitty. They are selective for strong men. Which you can become through hard work if you drop your toxic incel ideology.

You say most incels and not all incels can get laid simply because there will always be some incels out there who will never be willing to change or improve their mindset no matter what?

Edited February 18, 2022 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

You say most incels and not all incels can get laid simply because there will always be some incels out there who will never be willing to change or improve their mindset no matter what?

I expect many incels are too far gone into toxic ideology to get good with girls. It's a damn shame.

[Yarco]

I am acutely aware of the fact that I could be an incel if I was just a bit more unlucky and downtrodden in life.

One of my favorite Youtubers of all time is an incel called George's Journal (formerly known as Forever Alone Feels and Virgin Messiah.) Been watching every video this guy has made since like 2015, even while he has deleted at least 3 separate channels along the way.

https://www.youtube.com/c/George’sJournal/videos

There is nothing that separates me from this guy except pure luck. If anything, he tries harder than me, has more willpower, and has overcome more odds than me. But for some reason he's still a virgin.

He did nofap for far longer than I ever could. He started eating healthy and working out, lost like 100 lbs and looks like an absolute chad now. He has pushed himself in far more areas of life and developed himself more than I could. All while facing constant losses, he kept fighting an uphill battle. And still no gf.

I don't think I look any better or have better social skills than him. Maybe he is doing something really stupid when talking to women, but he seems friendly and charismatic and well-adjusted enough on camera. 

There are a lot of really weird and toxic incels for sure. But I think people also underestimate that a good % of people just get dealt a bad hand too, and can't seem to win no matter how hard they try.

I have a soft spot for incels because I see so much of myself in them. There are some that definitely get stuck in negative thought loops that you can't talk them out of, but I think many are coachable and capable of greatness with just a little bit of guidance.

I'm just an incel that a few girls have said yes to. I've treated most of my partners like crap and they still stick with me, and so many incels can't get a break. It's heartbreakingly unfair.

[Karmadhi]

A video for Incels would be appreciated  

[Preety_India]

Disappointment disappointment disappointment is all you're going to get. 

That's what you get among a bunch of incels. 

 

[Gili Trawangan]

5 hours ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

Getting laid takes a brutal ammount of socializing

Even this is a limiting belief.

You don't need to socialize that much, though it certainly helps if you do.

[Roy]

I say this with as much love, compassion, and good intention as I can, but there is simply no such thing as "involuntary" celibate. It's a false identity concocted from continually reinforced toxic thought patterns. They are celibate because of their own actions, or in this case lack thereof. They say they try and put in effort but in most cases that's not true, otherwise they would have some sort of results. If you peered into their lives or managed to talk to an Incel that was honest about their circumstances you would see they don't do really much at all to address their issue, or are severely deluded about their own degree of effort.

How do I say this so confidently? Well, anybody that has lost their virginity can tell you the level of input and effort needed to do so, and how it's actually not remotely as hard as Incels make it out to be. It's tougher for some people yes, but let's not pretend it's bloody rocket science. Sex is nearly something every single human on the planet has or will experience in their lifetime. Even people with the worst traits, status, and game can get laid, if they lowered their standards enough. Most people are selfish though and severely misjudge their own value in the sexual marketplace.

The problem is Incels are so buried in their own bullshit it seems impossible from their point of view, when it's not. Their mentality is the antithesis of self-actualization. They are in many cases actively moving in the direction not of being the best version of themselves, but the worst. It's peak victim mindset, and you can only extend so much love and compassion towards that before they need to hear the truth that will actually help them get out of the hole they are in.

It's not like I don't understand or empathize either. I can understand the headspace they are in from my own experiences. I had a reclusive phase where I didn't have sex from September 2011 to June 2016, at the ages where men are typically most active. There are definitely problems in society with hypergamy, feminism, technology, and our culture generally that can negatively impact a person and make it difficult for them. However you can only stretch those points so far before they become excuses.

There is really no valid excuse aside from being disabled or ill, even then that doesn't stop people.

[soos_mite_ah]

19 hours ago, patricknotstar said:

because of neurodivergent disorders or their appearance.

There are pleanty of people who are neurodivergent or not conventionally attractive but they don't turn into incels. Especially when it comes to the neurodivergent thing, there are a lot of stereotypes on how neurodivergent people can't empathize and how they are awful to be around. There isn't anything wrong with struggling with dating or coming late to the party when it comes to being sexually active. What separates incels from those who have issues wtih dating and those who are virgins at a later age is the ideology they have come up with and how it fuels bitterness and misogny. I agree that we shouldn't dehumanize incels and see them as subhuman, but it's also important to hold them accountable for their actions and lack of empathy and not blame it on neurodivergence and unfortunate looks. Blaming the actions and the ideology of incels on not getting laid, being neurodivergent, not being conventionally attractive etc. does a disservice to the normal individuals who deal with such things and stigmatizes their issues and it resolves accountabilty of incels.   

[Leo Gura]

58 minutes ago, Roy said:

but there is simply no such thing as "involuntary" celibate.

It just means: "Hasn't yet learned how to get laid"

[Tech36363]

@Leo Gura Yes that is true , but what you don't understand is that even a slight change in the sexual market place that makes it tougher for men to date pushes tons of men out . Because it is only people like you and others who have the patience and interest to understand game and go out and apply it . The average joe does not understand game . The average joe will never believe what is said here because they dont care about research . Men are the same , the market has changed . 

Men who used to get women without understanding game and go into relationship without understanding intersexual dynamics are being pushed out and treated badly because market has changed and they aren't adapting  .

Gone are the days when you could get women without game 

The average man was never supposed to do a deep study of intersexual dynamics and do tons of clubbing just to get women . 

The men crying about not getting women are just those type of men because the brainy will figure it out but what about the not so bright 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Tech36363