Do all girls feel objectified when having an ONS or being friends with benefits?

[Hardkill]

I was reviewing Leo's How To Get Laid - Part 1 - The Foundations Of Success With Women that women and he mentioned in that vid that women are repelled by being desired only for sex. I know that he has also mentioned to me before on this forum that girls never want to ever be treated as sex objects. So, does that mean that all girls who have had one night stands or become friends with benefits with a guy or guys always feel objectified? If so, then wouldn't that mean that it's morally right for guys to have any kind of casual sex with any girls?

Edited February 17, 2022 by Hardkill

[Preety_India]

Yes women feel objectified. I am a woman and I feel objectified if some guy told me that he wants me only for sex. It's deeply hurtful and repulsive. It's a feeling I cannot convey to you as a woman because you're a man and you probably wouldn't understand it, you'll need to be a woman to know how it feels. 

A woman wants to feel valued in a relationship, not used for a man's needs. She wants a man to like her, want her for more than her beauty, body or sex. This is genuine feminine expression. I'm sure most women feel similar or this seems familiar to them. 

That's why I don't do casual sex. Because I feel, by doing casual sex, my value worth as a woman degrades. This is just me (as a woman). 

If a man asked me for casual sex, I would feel humiliated and degraded. I'm trying my best to articulate my feelings as a woman here. 

It's like  being treated like a doll in a porcelain shop or being treated like a piece of meat for a man to chew into and take a bite and leave. Doesn't feel good. Feels like a sex slave whose only objective in life is to satisfy male hunger and thirst. 

Of course sex is an integral part of a relationship. Who denies that. Yet to be wanted and desired only for sex feels repulsive. This is core feminine. 

You can't dictate how a woman feels as a man yourself, but you can try to understand her feelings instead of denying them.

If you want intimacy with a woman, then understand her emotions rather than denying it.

I want a man who makes me feel that I'm a woman, not for sexual gratification of his desires, but for his admiration, his deep love for me, his affection for me and his connection with me. Sex will be a part of it. Yet I want more from a man than just sex. 

If a man only wants sex, hire a prostitute, but don't play with a woman's heart, make her feel loved and then make her feel used? 

Most women who play along and have casual sex with men for whatever reasons, that's okay. But a woman who is allowing a man to use her sexually isn't in touch with her deep feminine. 

Feminine is beautiful. Feminine is deep. Feminine is sensitive. Feminine is gentle. Feminine is delicate. Feminine is wise. 

Don't take advantage of femininity for your greed. Understand and cooperate with it, flow and harmonize. Don't be a sex monkey. 

What if a woman approached a man and said - "I love you only for your money and nothing else" Won't he feel objectified? I'm sure he would feel like a piece of rubbish and unloved on top of that. 

Don't make a woman feel what she doesn't want, what she deeply detests. If you do that and insist on doing that, you aren't really loving her. 

Love a woman as a woman wants to be loved or don't love her at all. 

 

Playing with a woman's heart is the worst form of delivery.

Telling her that she is being loved when she doesn't actually feel loved. 

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Preety_India

[Leo Gura]

Women have plenty of ONSs and enjoy it. But that's not what they're ultimately looking for.

A ONS does not have to be objectifying or emotionally hurtful. Sometimes two people just wanna hook up for a short-term fling and that's it. Both sides are happy with it because it's clear that this is not going be anything serious.

It becomes a problem if all you want is ONSs.

[puporing]

Why would someone simultaneously feel objectified (as in this is producing a negative feeling) and continue seeing the person. This sounds like a low self-esteem issue. Whereas otherwise you wanted that connection to begin with and you got what you wanted if it was mutual.

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Women have plenty of ONSs and enjoy it. But that's not what they're ultimately looking for.

A ONS does not have to be objectifying or emotionally hurtful. Sometimes two people just wanna hook up for a short-term fling and that's it. Both sides are happy with it because it's clear that this is not going be anything serious.

It becomes a problem if all you want is ONSs.

I personally have had no problem with having ONSs. I have had a few of them before in my life and I am okay with having been used just for sex and I think that the girls I had one night stands with seemed okay with having their bodies being used for just sex.

But I am still confused. 

So, it’s like you don’t want to make her feel like she is just being used for sex but you can just use her for sex as long you’re being clear that that is all you want from her? ?

I mean, what’s an example of a situation where a girl had a one night stand with you or is a fuck buddy but felt objectified and what’s an example of a situation of where you have a ONS or have casual relationship with a girl but didn’t make her feel objectified? 

 

[Gesundheit2]

Obviously not all of them, but probably a sizeable proportion.

In general, don't be upfront telling a woman that you want a relationship with her, and don't be upfront telling her that you only want sex, either. One way you'll be perceived as needy and the other way as creepy. Instead, tell her that you like to take your time getting to know her before considering anything serious.

[Gesundheit2]

@Preety_India Sure.

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

@Preety_India Sure.

You're giving her this false hope that you love her. She will end up broken hearted. At least you're setting up an expectation for her to want you only for you to leave her. 

 

 

[Gesundheit2]

@Preety_India Not true, because I might like her, and might not. The two scenarios are possible, so I'm only being truthful. A lot of women understand that having a vagina does not automatically grant a man's companionship.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Gesundheit2]

11 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

But when you tell her that you love her, why would you tell her if you didn't want her?

It depends on where this is happening.

If it's in your imagination, then it's because I'm a sick manipulative bastard. Otherwise, in reality, it's because that's the truth and/or right thing to say.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[zazen]

@Hardkill You had no problem with ONS's as your a guy and can detach emotion from the act more easily than a woman. Women can too but not as easily, for that reason most people hook up under alcoholic influence to detach/disassociate from the situation and not regret it later or rationalise it away that they were drunk and it just happened.  

 

A woman being used just for her body is like how a guy feels used when just for his money. It basically says you have nothing else to offer as a person except the most superficial part of your gender, the rawest biological form being for the male for resources and woman sex. Everything in life is transactional, the question is of depth. It's not that its bad its just limited or 1 dimensional. A man with just resources will have a 1 dimensional relationship, a guy with resources personality looks etc will have a multi dimensional relationship. Your transacting not just whats in your pocket but in your heart mind and between your legs.  Likewise with a woman, she has her heart mind and femininity to offer. 

 

People have shallow sex these days, which could signal that the average quality of people has declined ie men and women don't have much else to offer besides the basic. If your sleeping with a woman just for sex it signals that the woman has nothing else to offer and so your choice is either not good enough or the average quality of people isn't good enough to stick around or see them for more than what they are. If a woman was higher quality what guy wouldn't want to hang around and talk etc.  In the same light as how more men are lacking charisma, masculinity etc these days and are only used for money (sugar dating becoming more prominent). 

 

People have been hurt by sleeping around/cheating etc they get closed off and want to just have sex and nothing deeper so they don't get hurt again. In this case, the reason for sex could be just to let off steam, or validation sex for a self esteem boost. Sex can be had in a casual manner, as long as more relationship type behaviours aren't done like hugging, hand holding, eye gazing, intimate conversation etc.This is the reason escorts won't kiss, look yo in the eye, or prefer doggy position. Sex at that point is just stimulation based (dopamine) the other activities are bonding/security based (oxytocin). Both get released during sex even in a one night stand, but the oxytocin can be dampened for a weaker bond by not acting like a boyfriend or affectionate. Also, if you've slept with so many people your ability to feel is numbed just as an addict who's become desensitised to dopamine etc which further reduces the person to an object. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by zazen

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, zazen said:

@Hardkill You had no problem with ONS's as your a guy and can detach emotion from the act more easily than a woman. Women can too but not as easily, for that reason most people hook up under alcoholic influence to detach/disassociate from the situation and not regret it later or rationalise it away that they were drunk and it just happened.  

 

A woman being used just for her body is like how a guy feels used when just for his money. It basically says you have nothing else to offer as a person except the most superficial part of your gender, the rawest biological form being for the male for resources and woman sex. Everything in life is transactional, the question is of depth. It's not that its bad its just limited or 1 dimensional. A man with just resources will have a 1 dimensional relationship, a guy with resources personality looks etc will have a multi dimensional relationship. Your transacting not just whats in your pocket but in your heart mind and between your legs.  Likewise with a woman, she has her heart mind and femininity to offer. 

 

People have shallow sex these days, which could signal that the average quality of people has declined ie men and women don't have much else to offer besides the basic. If your sleeping with a woman just for sex it signals that the woman has nothing else to offer and so your choice is either not good enough or the average quality of people isn't good enough to stick around or see them for more than what they are. If a woman was higher quality what guy wouldn't want to hang around and talk etc.  In the same light as how more men are lacking charisma, masculinity etc these days and are only used for money (sugar dating becoming more prominent). 

 

Another point is that because people have been hurt by sleeping around/cheating etc they get closed off and want to just have sex and nothing deeper so they don't get hurt again. In this case, the reason for sex could be just to let off steam, or validation sex for a self esteem boost. Sex can be had in a casual manner, as long as more relationship type behaviours aren't done like hugging, hand holding, eye gazing, intimate conversation etc. Sex at that point is just stimulation based (dopamine) the other activities are bonding/security based (oxytocin). Both get released during sex even in a one night stand, but the oxytocin can be dampened for a weaker bond by not acting like a boyfriend. Also, they could have slept with so many people their ability to feel much from you is numbed just as an addict who's become desensitised to dopamine etc. 

Totally agree. Beautifully explained. 

[Gesundheit2]

11 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

But I get your perspective.

I don't think you get it. But that's fine, you can read my posts again. I'm done here.

[zazen]

@Preety_Indiia @Gesundheit2 In the east / India sex has a certain value to it, that its not given as easily. The value of a thing is its rarity. So the way relations work is you first get to know someone and once you've figured you like each other over time then you commit to the sexual act. In more liberal cultures or in the West, people get to know each other whilst also having sex so they figure if they like or don't like each other over time and then part ways if they aren't compatible. Thats why you both have different view points. 

 

In the east its compatibility first, chemistry second. In the west its chemistry first and lets figure if we'r compatible along the way. Of course this can be a recipe for disaster as once you have chemistry and are physically bonded to each other people over look their incompatibilities and end up in horrible relationship. Once your bodies are flooded with bonding hormones through sex, your vision is clouded and its harder to part way. Tradition has some wisdom to it.

 

A woman's sexual value may be high but her relationship value may be low, same for men. Modern culture has emphasised sexual value and rewarded such, putting relational value lower. We have a genetic drive to be polyamorous or monogamous, but the modern culture stimulates or poly genetic drivers more. Its epigenetic's in front of our eyes. In reality we'r all cheaters, in our animal nature, but as humans with consciousness monogamy and deep relationships are a choice we must practice at and structure our society to foster. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by zazen

[zazen]

Its not a moral question as much as it is a certain actions have certain consequences, its up to us whether we want to deal with those consequences/outcomes. Theirs a reason women were protected over Millenia (although excessively which is bad), they are more prone to emotions. If thats the case, its mens role to lead women in a path that is better suited for their long term happiness. Put women in stimulating club environments and drinking their conscience away, letting their emotions get the better of them and they become more vulnerable. Add to that, the culture tells them its okay only for it to back fire on them later in life. These girls have no chance with that kind of cultural set up, we have to have sympathy for them in that sense. 

 

Theres the flip side of hypo agency, which is men taking the responsibility excessively for everything. Whilst a woman does have agency and free choice, how free is she really. Her choices are determined by her upbringing, society and her genes/animal nature, which in the modern world give way to being promiscuous way too easily. It's not that its bad morally, but it doesn't lead to the most happiness long term. Women are gonna be old longer than they are gonna be hot, so its best they work on relationship habits and having a committed relationship than ONS, likewise for men. 

[hamedsf]

there's no problem if she feels objectified, I can see some feminine dudes who say to girls: ohh, you wanted me just for sex, I wouldn't mind if a girl just wants me for sex and sees me as a sex object.  

[Gregory1]

27 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

Noone forces women to have casual sex at a gunpoint

@Knowledge Hoarder 

Uhmmm haven't you heard about Leos ex girlfriend?

[zazen]

People aren't controlled anymore or forced, that doesn't mean their not influenced. Women being the more emotional sex are more easily influenced. Men are more rational, women are more rationalising. They'll act on emotion, and rationalise that act later to support their action and maintain self esteem if that action is generally deemed good or bad etc. To maintain emotional homeostasis. Men by nature should take more role / responsibility in rationally acting in that regard. 

 

Women are hard wired to depend on social bonds for survival a lot more than men. That being the case theres more need to be socially accepted / fit in, which is why they are more sensitive to taking responsibility, blame or criticism. Its a visceral response to being socially outed from the tribe and threatening their survival. So they will take shape like water of the society / bottle they are placed in. What society do we have now .. one that objectifies women. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by zazen

[Gesundheit2]

2 hours ago, zazen said:

In the east its compatibility first, chemistry second. In the west its chemistry first and lets figure if we'r compatible along the way.

Whether in the east or the west, you see a girl, you like her physical appearance, then you go through a certain route to gain access to sex. There are various routes, although currently easier in the west, but they're essentially the same. These categories you're creating are irrelevant. Nobody in the more traditional societies cares about compatibility. They care about physical appearance, money, status/family/personal relations, religion/faith, and things like that. Personal compatibility is not one of those things because eastern societies are not individualistic. At best the concept of compatibility is not as sophisticated as you would imagine since the man has the dominant role in the relationship. So either the woman submits to her husband, or she gets divorced, which is a bad reputation, so most women submit eventually because the last word is for the man and he doesn't have to split anything with the woman except what they agreed to beforehand. Or if he doesn't have options and/or she's really smart and manipulative, the dynamic is reversed. But there's not even the thought or discussion about compatibility for most people, even in the west I doubt most people care about anything more than their pragmatic needs of the other person, but at least in the west it's easier and more possible to actualize it, unlike in the east. I live in the middle-east, btw.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[Gesundheit2]

33 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

@zazen Everything you've said about women, can be applied to literaly everyone, because noone has 100% free will, we are all influenced by emotions and impulses. However, you still have a choice on how to act, and every single one of your actions is 100% your responsibility. Even if you act like a victim, because you cannot handle that responsibility.

Should I now feel pitty for drug addicts or obese food addicts? To some degree yes, it's only human to fight impulses and not being successfull in that for a long time. So I can relate with that struggle to some degree, and I have a degree of sympathy. However, at the end of the day, it's 100% up to the food/drug addict's actions, whether he becomes healthy again or not. We cannot treat you like a little child, and hold you by the hand every step of the way. Welcome to real life.

I am being influenced in some ways by women's beauty every day - or relatively often - which, if I was to act upon this instinct and be successfull in obtaining what I want, could put me in a risky, or at the very least uncomfortable situation. Not saying my risks are at all comparable to women's risks in this domain, but they are still there. I could get STDs, become father unwillingly and maybe even be forced to pay child support, get used in some way (financial or other way), or maybe have girl wanting to be in a relationship with me while I don't wanna reciprocate. Should girl be held solely responsible for mitigating these risks, and should she even, for example, stop dressing provocativelly, so that I can stop having these urges? Of course fucking not. Just like it's not men's responsibility to take care of women's problems, it's not women's responsibility to take care of men's problems. And I don't care how many theories you'll make up, in order to justify this nonsense responsibility shift. I stand by what I've said in my previous post.

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