Carnivore diet

[slicketygiggedy]

Just read this interesting article about the health benefits from a carnivore diet. https://academic.oup.com/cdn/article/5/12/nzab133/6415894

Do you think this is one of the legitimate healthy diets out there? (Curing autoimmune diseases, diabetes, obesity etc)

I'm curious to hear what everyone else thinks about this. 

[aurum]

@slicketygiggedy yeah people have become brainwashed into thinking meat is unhealthy and plants are healthy. It’s just way too simplistic of an analysis. I definitely believe carnivore could help people short term.

It’s also an elimination diet, so you could use it strategically to determine food intolerances / allergies. 

Long term, I’m not sold on strict carnivore. Much like there is dogma around veganism, carnivore has its own dogma.

For instance, why would you constantly want to be in a ketogenic state? Unless you’re looking to lose weight or obtain some sort of specific health outcome, long-term non-cycled keto makes no sense. And gluconeogenesis isn’t going to save you. People on carnivore basically don’t get insulin spikes.

There’s also concerned about being low in nutrients like vitamin C and fiber. Carnivores go through large hoops to explain why you (maybe) don’t need these. But why even risk that if you can handle other foods? Just eat a god damn banana.

Point being, Ben Franklin should have included dogma on his list of certainties in life.

Looking forward to the day when we realize all this debate around diet was nonsense and we just become breatharians.

[slicketygiggedy]

@aurum Lol yeah there's way too much debate about what is the perfect diet. I can see it how makes sense for a lot of people to cut out certain foods that are inflammatory or whatever but most people haven't even heard about carnivore, let alone considering even trying it out. 

Like you said, we've been brainwashed through advertisements and marketing to make us believe red meat will somehow give us colon cancer and we'll die young from cholesterol that clog up our arteries. 

Long-term keto is definitely not the way to go but something that's more like a whole food paleo diet would help most people, its just sad hardly anyone knows about it or wants to try it out.  Like put health first then everything else falls into place after that. 

That study just came out of Harvard at the end of 2021, the area of research is still way under studied and i think they're starting to research it a lot more now because of it's apparent benefits. 

[Scholar]

Have you even read the study? It undermines it's very findings in the Limitations. Self-report surveys is one of the lowest quality data you could have. The fact that you guys jump on these like it was a holy grail just makes it clear how biased you are.

Imagine a survey like this for a banana-only diet. You'd immediately see why it would be an issue to have such a survey.

 

We have excellent data on health-outcomes of vegan diets, which is why consensus of professionals and institutions tends towards reducing consumption of animal products and increasing consumption of healthy plant foods.

 

[Leo Gura]

On carnivore, all your cholesterol numbers will shoot through the roof. It gets pretty bad. So it's not sustainable long-term, even if it does improve autoimmune.

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

On carnivore, all your cholesterol numbers will shoot through the roof. It gets pretty bad. So it's not sustainable long-term, even if it does improve autoimmune.

Yes, this is akin to having cancer in your leg and then saying "Bro, I cut off my leg and I feel so much better! Cutting legs off is healthy!".

Edited February 15, 2022 by Scholar

[undeather]

14 hours ago, slicketygiggedy said:

Just read this interesting article about the health benefits from a carnivore diet. https://academic.oup.com/cdn/article/5/12/nzab133/6415894

Do you think this is one of the legitimate healthy diets out there? (Curing autoimmune diseases, diabetes, obesity etc)

I'm curious to hear what everyone else thinks about this. 

Its undeniable that there are numerous strong anecdotes about seemingly miraculous cures after switching to a carnivore diet. I will tell you my why- hypothesis in a minute, but lets first settle the science. There is zero percent credible scientific evidence for the carnivore diet to be a healthy or longevity promoting lifestyle in any way or form. On the contrary, mulitple lines of evidence from all over the world show a strong correlation between meat consuption and all-cause mortality. I know the carnivore-bros and "doctors" like Shawnk Baker try to convince the world otherwise, but there is just no substance in their arguments at all. 

So why the positive reports?
My hypothesis is that there is a pandemic of subclinical intolerances/intoxications caused by a cascade of man-made food-matrix variances & unnatural processing influences that are overwhleming the hormetic capacities of the homeodynamic processees at a cellular level. Easier said: Phthalates, volatile organic compounds, microplastics, rubber compounds, heavy metals, food additives, processing byprodcuts like acrylamides... (the list is very long) in your food will make you feel miserable and sick. 

Now imagine what happens if you suddenly stop eating all that shit from one day to another and start going full carnivore. Meat of course does have its own list of potential contaminants, but especially high quality products usually do score low compared to the garbage most people consume on a daily basis. This will of course free up a big portion of your hormetic capacity which comes with an increased notion of wellbeing while releasing metabolic tension, reversing diabetes and other conditions. Adding to that effect is a property of functional animal proteins which increases mTOR-activity and induces a complex biochemical pathway that eventually leads to "more energy". 

Sounds good, right? No! 
See, even though there are undeniably pleasent effects in the short run, a carnivore diet will cause a lot of havoc over time:
- Increased lipid-profile, which is the #1 risk foctor for cardiovascular disease
- Gut-microbiome disturbances & SIBO
- Poor micronutrient status
- hormonal imbalances
- Increased cancer risks
- mTOR activation is causally linked to faster aging
.... and so on.

The "positive effects" of the carnivore diet are primarily caused by the elimination part. Couple of years ago there was a huge hype around celery-juice. People claimed to heal their metabolic conditions by just drinking this magical juice for weeks. Same logic there. 

I think there are extreme cases of this like the Peterson family, but most of us stick somewhere in the middle of the bell curve. 

Appendix:
There is this ridicolous argument of the "recommended daily allowance (RDA)", which basically says how much poision is allowed in a certain amount of food. Its true that, as Paracelsus said it 500 years ago, "the dose makes the poison". However, there are several limitations to the RDA-guidelines. Besides relying on bad quality studies in some cases, data is severely limited by:
1) interindividual differences which could cause detremental effects in certain individuals
2) combinatoric effects of multiple toxins
3) underreporting 

 

Thanks

Edited February 15, 2022 by undeather

[PurpleTree]

14 hours ago, slicketygiggedy said:

Just read this interesting article about the health benefits from a carnivore diet. https://academic.oup.com/cdn/article/5/12/nzab133/6415894

Do you think this is one of the legitimate healthy diets out there? (Curing autoimmune diseases, diabetes, obesity etc)

I'm curious to hear what everyone else thinks about this. 

it will certainly help with obesity etc. as you generally eat much less calories.

but it could have a whole host of other issues that we don't know yet, like causing cancer or whatever.

i've tried the carnivore diet as an experiment for a month, i found i was generally more relaxed, like less anxieties, less stomach issues etc.

but after a month started feeling bad.

[slicketygiggedy]

16 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

but after a month started feeling bad.

 

 

bad in what way?

[PurpleTree]

14 minutes ago, slicketygiggedy said:

 

 

bad in what way?

i already have issues with sleep and fatigue and after a month fatigue seemed to get worse

what was interesting though is that, normally i get anxiety from uppers like adderall or whatever but on the carnivore diet i didn't get anxiety.

i was also having some exams during that carnivore month

i've also tried the keto diet and also after about a month started to feel worse