Last and final objection to Leo (Solipsism, Oneness, Non-duality, God, Infinity)

[Vynce]

First of all I want to show a deep level of gratitude towards all the amazing videos packed with insights and deep understanding you have present us with. Sometimes it was just mental sex (fantastic sex after all ), but most of the times this work has really helped to me achieve and see new light in life. Thank you Leo.

 

So here’s my final all or nothing objection, that completely constructs or deconstructs materialism or solipsism, depending how it gets answered. I want to challenge your chain of metaphysical connections of God, which gets usually laid out like this. Presented as a dialogue between me and Leo.

 

Leo: You are God. Heres why -> There is nothing but your awareness

Me: true, I can see that right now

Leo: Everything, that has ever happened, including people talking about their own „happening bubbles“ happens inside your awareness

Me: yes, it is verifiable right now

Leo: Therefor, your own bubble of sensation is the only thing, that exist. Also known as the Universe. -> And the ultimate proof of you being God and One, is that you are infinite -> Every other God or meta God has to be insight of infinity

Me: Yes, that’s technically true, but since I cannot see infinity right now, its just an assumption at this moment

 

So this whole chain depends on the fact that your consciousness is currently finite, but actually is infinite.

And than you recommend „take psychedelics to check this fact by yourself, no need to believe me“

 

And that’s the point, where I want to step in: What if your experience of infinity, just appears to be infinite? Maybe its enormously huge and enormously growing to appear infinite, but not actually infinity. Speaking from a materialistic paradigm: What if your neurological capacity, which is needed for everyday consciousness is so small, that a huge increase in neurological capacity via psychedelics results in the experience of „oh wow this has to be infinity“.

 

After all, how can you be sure, that you experienced infinity. Because the possibility of „experiencing infinity, without actually having infinity“ works completely fine under the materialistic paradigm.

 

Now, you gonna say: „Well, clearly you have not experienced infinity“. But even if I filly myself up with a pound of 5-meo-DMT, how can I be sure this experience was absolutely infinite? How can I be sure, it just didn't APPEARED to be infinite?

How can you be absolutely sure Leo? 

Namaste, thanks for reading

Edited February 14, 2022 by Vynce

[flyingwhalee]

Appearance IS reality

[Vynce]

2 minutes ago, flyingwhalee said:

Appearance IS reality

Exactly. Still, the question remains, is Oneness/Infinity actually to be found in reality or is it just a ungraspable huge, yet finite thing with the label "infinity" on it. Hopefully, you see my problem now. 

[Vynce]

@Judy2 I don't see how this relates to finite consciousness or infinite consciousness. Realizing No-Self/Nothingness can still perfectly be explained in the materialistic paradigm. Infinity cant, hence the post above. 

[Vynce]

@Judy2 For me its absolutely clear, that everything is just consciousness. That the ego is an illusion, that this experience right now is the only thing that has and will ever happen. However, all these insights can be explained with finite consciousness. Don't forget, finitude can be arbitrary large. Everything that has every happened to you can be inside of a finite frame. Yet, Leo claims absolute, undoubtable INFINITY INFINITY INFINITY (TIMES INFINITY) !!! is the necessary for solipsism and Oneness to work. 

I don't see how "Not knowing" will help me with that questions. 

[Bow24]

@Vynce I think his answer would be "well, take some 5-MeO-DMT/ 5-MeO-MALT (safely and with proper protocols of course) and then come back and ask that question again."

 

Because you won't have to ask that question anymore.

 

35 minutes ago, Vynce said:

How can I be sure, it just didn't APPEARED to be infinite?

 

The absolute, undoubtable realization of your Self being infinite awareness comes from the absolute, undoubtable realization of your Self being infinite awareness. There is no other way to it. You cannot understand it logically. It doesn't come to you through some kind of sensory stimulation. You don't see it with your eyes or hear it with your ears. It is more fundamental than your eyes and ears. If you experience that level of consciousness, your entire being, every particle and every wave you are made of, is 100% certain of it's origin and it's state of infinity.

Sorry if this answer doesn't satisfy you. Of course you don't have to take strong psychedelics either, it's not for everyone, and in fact, for almost no-one.

[Vynce]

20 minutes ago, Bow24 said:

It is more fundamental than your eyes and ears. If you experience that level of consciousness, your entire being, every particle and every wave you are made of, is 100% certain of it's origin and it's state of infinity.

This resonates well with my understanding of God realization. I've experienced it four times, with LSD (with up to 1000μg). There was absolutely no speck of a doubt, that I'am God. Every "other" merged into this singular ungraspable point of stillness and Love. Unbelievable, shocking, ecstatic. 

In face of such mind devastating realization I was quick to say that had to be infinity. But now I'am sitting here, contemplating how I can be so sure about this conclusion. And I don't find anything satisfying in being skeptic. I just want to be absolutely sure about how I see reality. 

 

[Bow24]

@Vynce

Interesting! Of course it is good to doubt and examine your experiences on psychedelics. For me personally, the certainness I have about being infinite comes from an "enlightenment experience" or "awakening" I have had without any substances. I was in a hyper-focused state for multiple months (this was in 2017) in which I lost all interest in life, except for the dominating question "What am I? What is this made of?". Then one night, after listening to tons of Rupert Spira talks (as I did every day during that time), i did a guided meditation by Alan Watts, after which I got up, and went to the bathroom with a completely empty head. I didn't think a single thought for the next couple of minutes, and when I got out of the bathroom and looked out the window, the perspective seemed so strange to me. I knew the street i saw outside should be about 8 meters away, and that i was 2 meters away from the window, but it didn't look like it. There was no distance at all between me, the window, and the street I saw outside.

At that moment time seemed to stop, and this profound feeling of warmth and love spread from my stomach through my entire body. The experience probably only lasted for like 30 seconds, but it felt like it would be forever in the first couple of moments.

During this experience it was crystal clear to me what I am, that I have always been here, and that I will stay here forever.

 

Maybe I described it in too much detail, but I haven't described it to anybody in some time so I felt like it 

[fridjonk]

Leo covered this in the curt podcast part 1. When you reach infinite consciousness, all skepticism there ever could be is contained within it, which you are infinitely and eternally aware of. 

[Bow24]

4 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

Leo covered this in the curt podcast part 1. When you reach infinite consciousness, all skepticism there ever could be is contained within it, which you are infinitely and eternally aware of. 

 

This answer is a lot better than mine.

[Leo Gura]

If you become infinitely conscious the idea of doubting yourself will look laughable.

God does not doubt itself when it is awake. Doubting is something the ego does out of fear and ignorance when it is asleep.

[Vynce]

@Bow24 @Judy2 @Leo Gura Alright. Enough of this mental zigzag. Lots of work ahead. I hope we will laugh together one day