Being a political activist to burn through GREEN

[Husseinisdoingfine]

I am flirting with being an activist, just to burn through GREEN. Your thoughts?

[Scholar]

I don't know if you can force yourself to burn through something. Why do you want to do that anyways?

[Husseinisdoingfine]

49 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I don't know if you can force yourself to burn through something. Why do you want to do that anyways?

I'm not forcing myself, I do genuinely want to be an activist. I'm simply curious how effective it will be in my goals of ascending the existential staircase, the double helix bio-psycho social model of human development.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Husseinisdoingfine

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

the existential staircase, the double helix bio-psycho social model of human development.

...well that's a new one ?

[aurum]

2 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

I'm not forcing myself, I do genuinely want to be an activist. I'm simply curious how effective it will be in my goals of ascending the existential staircase, the double helix bio-psycho social model of human development.

Your goal shouldn’t be to ascend spiral dynamic stages. This isn’t a video game.

Keep in mind what is most important. These stages are just there for you to gauge your progress and maybe provide a bit of a map.

If you truly want to be an activist, do it. And forget about how it affects your spiral dynamics score card.

[Yarco]

You can only accelerate it so fast. If you try to burn through it too quickly, it'll actually be counter-productive.

Like when the US invades Iraq and tries to pull a whole society from blue to orange before it's ready, it actually sets progress back further and it'll take longer for them to go through the natural process. It just creates chaos.

Even if you genuinely want to become an activist and you're a willing participant, you'll likely get in too deeply too fast and become disillusioned. Instead of slingshotting up past green, you're at risk of whiplashing back deep into orange, and developing a new hatred for green that you'll have to burn through to ascend again.

I've tried what you're wanting to try several times, breaking out of capitalist mode into full hippy territory, and been set back several times. I'd probably be further along if I just chilled and did nothing and let things take their course.

You definitely can't just go through the physical actions of doing activism. It has to be an inner transformation first.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Yarco

[Roy]

You're way too intelligent and open-minded to be an activist lol. Being an activist takes a certain type of ignorance and personality type.

[Matt23]

Yaaa.... don't do it if you truly don't want to. 

You'll probably just develop a lot of resentment and frustration by doing it if you don't really want to.  

It's like the difference between your parents making you go to college or you having a dream of being a doctor so you do it yourself.  But in this case, you're playing the part of your parents as well. 

You might even develop an "allergy" to those types of people and activities and some shadow material.  Stuff that maybe you could've avoided if you did it on your own time and authentic motivation.

Buuuttttt....

I dunno. 

On the other hand, it might be a great learning experience and show you stuff about reality and yourself. 

...

Actually... you know what.... I think you should do it. 

I think doing shit, even if it seems misguided or forced, is good.  Any experience is good experience.  

Have at it.  Get dirty.  Play in the mud. Have fun and adventures.  

You might even really enjoy it.   

[Tim R]

Probably won't harm to go on a demo here and there just to feel what it's like. 

But you can't burn through something if there's not really anything for you to burn through, y'know?

[max duewel]

If you want to do it you gotta really believe its worthwhile for you now. You will eventually realize the limits of it and quit if you are self-reflective.

[Baum]

trying to avoid green by going through it as quickly as you can, is not actually going through green. if you are not genuiely green what's the point? you will still be orange satisfying your ego just to be able to say to yourself, you are  higher than green now.

[Carl-Richard]

I think this exemplifies the dangers of working with frameworks that go beyond one's own level of development (using DocWatts' idea of "epistemic bypassing"). Instead of organically going through life and exploring different perspectives from the bottom-up, you apply a partial, top-down understanding to bootstrap and brute-force yourself up to a perceived place of superiority. 

Pretend to forget everything you know and sit down and feeeeel! What do you really want? Pursue that.

[DocWatts]

The temptation to treat Spiral Dynamics as an EXP bar in a video game is one of the main reasons why I think Spiral Dynamics is much better utilized as a dialectical sociological framework than as a personal development hierarchy.

I've been thinking about how I would explain SD to someone who'd never heard of it before, and I'd probably frame it as sort of extension of Hegelian dialectics, or as a sociological development theory that deals with how meta-ideologies such as postmodernism form and interact with one another.

For personal development, studying and practicing  spirituality has done far more for my personal development than a model Spiral Dynamics ever could have. Think about how growth actually occurs. It's not just that you receive a new set of beliefs, but you go through an inner transformation where aspects of your character are cultivated. A scientific model without an associated practice to draw meaning from isn't going to cultivate your character, even if said model does impart knowledge.

Edited February 15, 2022 by DocWatts

[ValiantSalvatore]

I did some of the courses that are offered by Ken Wilber and Integral Life as well as some of the stuff in other places and there are practical ways to get a taste of each stage and it's karma I did the full course on full spectrum mindfulness and some of the stuff is not talked about here. @Husseinisdoingfine You can basically get a taste and burn through it at home yet, also notice how active the stage and how much you can exhaust the karma or jsut having the awarness of it is very good. My example is applied to your post as you asked about green. I exhausted green a lot and had more stage orange drives to deal with. I find orange also more interesting from the way the course split up the basic drives of stage orange. 

Hope this is helpful I don't have all the time to format this.

For example in the course they recommend to meditate with integral mindfulness which is not very different from any kind of mindfulness out there to feel to imagine how the stage feels like he gives you sort of a guided meditation and explains the overall framework

These are my notes out of the course:

Came with a emergence with a fourth person perspective meaning they could criticize science. Or what is objectively seen.

Relativistic - Caused the movement of deconstruction. Criticized previous levels and deconstructing them especially universal claims. Especially their fragmented viewpoints. Says there are no universal truths. No truth to anybody.

Ones own believe aggresive critiiques of big pictures. Marxism, Fundamentalism, Sexism, Patrichalism, Spechism, Scientism - all this was critizied because of it's wholeness. A fair amount of truth is there from the level of criticism. The previous levels tended to be less inclusive and less universal. But they went to far. All knowledge is context far and boundless and depend endlessly on interpretation. All knowledge is culturally constructed. They give a universal picture that there is a big picture, so there is no superior view.

No-gos are at this stage green value level. Emposing and promulgating that a green structure stage is now being used in a country which has a lower level of development, will only cause the next dictator or a similar old structure to rise to power. Because you can't skip stages you have to give them the appropriate space to grow.

What Wilber shows is that this map is universal true. So Green would deny it.

Culture wars shows this stages.

There will never be harmony in a culture as long as there is no higher stage offering higher wholeness instead of this coercing madness towards the enforcing structure stage.

There is nothing superior on this planet.

You have your truth and I have my subjective truth

All ranking all hierachies are strictily taboo.

Partnership society are needed excellence and achievement is looked at critically and this is nothing but oppression.

Everyone is encouraged to share there feelings.

Comes straight from the heart thinking is out feeling comes in. Most be emodied must be anchored in feeling not in  thinking.

Quantum Physicts is eco-centric instead of ego-centric. Is feminist, gaia focused and earth centered. Perfomative contradiction = you are actually doing in your own behaviour what can not be done at all or what you deem as evil or bad and should not be done.

You are judging them for judging. You are ranking them for ranking. You have the truth. You like to impose your view on their view that imposes them on others. Green says it treats all people fairly and loathes all orange values and recognition of exellence. Loathes all integral and amber values.

Exercise from the course:

Notice how you judge. Pick a negative example and hold that situation. What is it like to judge somebody negatively for being a racist. Feel that judging activity as deeply as you can. Bring pure witnessing to that feeling of negative judgement. Universally valid judgement that racism is bad. But if you allow that universally you are not contradicting yourself.

 

Universal judgements. We want to be aware of judgements in any case. Integral mindfulness on that area. Making judgements starting with negative judgments, intolerant, sexist etc. What is this charateristic that is behind it. Where is it located, what color has it, how does it smell like.

At the sametime you are not a pluralist either that denies all universal judgements.

Attempst infinte acceptance attempts infinite love acceptance, still bound to the self-contraction.

 

Look at the things you do judge and see if it is a good things or if it is on good reson. This is important coming from this stage. It sees non-ranking higher and better then ranking it is still ranking. What are good guidelines in ranking then ?

 

Postmodern pluralistic level 6. When is ranking okay but recommended according to this levels own values. This level values equality over almost everything else. Not all levels share this view. None of them in reality does. Predeator and prey at red for e.g 0 equality here. Amber the saved and the dammend saints and sinners. It will accept only those who are dammend saints. Orange will put them into winners and looser none of these equality stuff. Only green values equality and sees them as essentially equaly or egaliterian. A developmental level it is just that.

 

Vertical development is much better then not having it. Ranked and judged accordingly then this stage level 6. Treats all people fairly and morally. How tolerant are they or not. Green pluralism wether they treat others. Not treating all people fairly is bad.

Each higher level is more adqueate and better. Increasingly more inclusive more embracing more moral and more loveing. Eros showing ist true colors.

Men = Hierachy and autonomey -> Men and patriachy (In a different voice Carol Gillgian) all patriachy are bad. 

Women = Relationship and belonging 

Both men and women develop throught the 4 basic hierachial development. Stage 2 or care. Only her self to care. Stage 3 all humans regadrless of race, color, sex and greed.

Women tend to think hierachiecly themselves. More feminine values. Each higher level is more moral more caring.
 

Dominator Hierchay: Cast System, Mafia the higher the level you are the more people you can opress, authorterian state, president trump and decress.

 

Growth Hierachy: Most of them in nature are them: Atoms - > Organism. Transcends and includes. Higher levels don't oppress higher levels they include them they embrace them.

 

Perfomative contradiction = it puts hierachy on it's lowest level of hierachy. Bright light of mindulness video tape it from all possible angles.

 

Transcend and include all judgements we want to let go of judgement all together. This is better then this ?`What color is it what shape is it what does it look like what does it feel like. Get this attitude firmly into awarness. Fully firmly. Alternate this focus on finite judgement making with limitless unbounded awarness. With pure everpresent awareness. World centric judgements are better then ethnocentric judgements -> That is not what wisdom traditions mean. Ultimate truths are ultimately non-dual etc. Beyond pleasure and pain etc. Radical love or beauty of consciouness.

 

No inside vs. Outside. No good v.s bad. Just pure isness pure suchness no up no down. Creator of all concepts (cloud of unkowing) zen calls it don't know mind. Ultimate unqualifyable

 

Inclusiveness = Positive sense civil rights movements, enviromental movement, feminism, closer and closer to ultimate truth as we have seen with relativity. Focus on your own sense of indentity a strong deep sense of being identified with someone or something. How your own ultimate awarness becomes identified with I am this or I am that. Imagine it expanding to include your family, circle of friends, college and business associate. In your state or your nation entire global village expand and expand and expand. Represents the ongoing movement of the universe itself.

Constant eros = transcend and include. Larger and larger and larger -> Remember is occuring along with exercises in growing up
 

Personal Example for the session

I don't know maybe my ego wants harmony with others not being hurt stopping this endless cycle of pain and hurt and agony over survival, culture wars and endless manipulation and hierachy games. I could avoid it by first accepting that his happens and then working towards creating harmony in my own live with my own level of idealism that can for sure work or releasing it throught spiritual practice and finding a way to deal with fear through meditation or working with my emotions more directly.

A hidden superiority for me is by knowing wilbers work and spiral dynamics and seeing myself as higher placed than others I judge lower ranking systems if I do not like them. I see myself as superior morally and try to not convey it but I convey it nonetheless so I accept that I convey it and judge them and see that I am higher placed then them. Yet, that does not give me the right to negate their viewpoint or condem their moral system as being bad or useless. It has less wholness and intuitivness as well as less competence.

Consider the pockets of pain and struggle in the world: from refugees to war to climate change. Can you relax your mind and heart while opening to stillness and compassion? I would feel sad thinking about them yet also offering them kindness and support would yes open my heart and allow myself to feel balanced and relaxed in my own view of helping them, yet I would also feel a tremendous amount of sadness for their circumstance and try my best to help them if given the chance or seen from afar offer my support in stillnes and in a sense of prayer help them or thank them for being so strong and enduring
 

What inside of you is desperate for more harmony in the world, and how can you avoid becoming caught in a cycle of fear?

In what ways are your perspectives and behavior have a hidden moral superiority to those around you–for example, do you judge others for being judgmental?

Think about the most important or pressing situation in your life right now. How can you show up with more unconditional love right now?

[Mesopotamian]

On 2/14/2022 at 6:43 AM, Yarco said:

Like when the US invades Iraq and tries to pull a whole society from blue to orange before it's ready, it actually sets progress back further and it'll take longer for them to go through the natural process. It just creates chaos.

Iraq was never blue in its history probably. At the most cases, it was under red leadership disguised as blue (Saddam Hussain) but then it regressed basically to a modern version of Purple right now. Adjacent houses with high walls, no community organizations, tribalism, you name it, only with added flavor of modern technology, and crappy copies of western educational universites.