Jordan Peterson supports psychedelics

[Jakuchu]

@Leo Gura I am still struggling to understand the majority of people. 8hrs+ of labor for decades just to survive is acceptable but 1hr of meditation for a few years to reach truth is too much? Like how... 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Jakuchu

[Matthew85]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But mostly it's just a lack of serious intention. Most people are not serious about reaching truth, and they are not willing to do the work to deconstruct everything. You have to want this bad enough to do years of work.

True

I have had very profound insights on very low doses of psychedelics, while friends of mine can take higher doses and have a fun trip, but no profound insights. The difference is I have had a deep interest and passion for truth for many years and spent a lot of time expanding my consciousness through contemplation and spiritual practices. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Matthew85

[puporing]

3 hours ago, Hardkill said:

However, the point I am making is that Jordan Peterson is from an older generation of therapists and has been widely recognized as more of a conservative. He also has some kind of a stage Green shadow and holds an excess amount of belief in scientism and traditional academia as Leo said. Also, the researcher he interview is from an older generation as well. 

Yet Peterson in that vid really is in favor of something that is not even mainstream yet and could be considered progressive.

There are alot of psychedelic users who are more "scientific minded" and even anti-spiritual the way we talk about it here. Just coz someone is open to psychedelic use does not mean the intention is to question reality and for the pursuit of truth above others. I see lot of users who primarily treat it as a form of self-therapy and are simply not aware of other potentials.

I guess for someone mostly aimed at therapeutic benefits it's not hard to convince them if they are very scientific minded as there are alot of studies on that already..

Edited February 13, 2022 by puporing

[Forza21]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not superficial to him.

But it is superficial for our work.

Biology and genetics certainly play a huge role.

But mostly it's just a lack of serious intention. Most people are not serious about reaching truth, and they are not willing to do the work to deconstruct everything. You have to want this bad enough to do years of work. Most people just don't want it. In fact, they actively avoid it.

They have one bad trip and they never return.

10 minutes ago, Jakuchu said:

@Leo Gura I am still struggling to understand the majority of people. 8hrs+ of slave labor for decades just to survive is acceptable but 1hr of meditation for a few years to reach truth is too much? Like how... 

if i were GOD who creates illusion of others, i would design as much fear and doubt on myself, when searching for truth. If it was any easier, what would be the point of the game i'm playing?;)

Edited February 13, 2022 by Forza21

[Leo Gura]

40 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

So, why isn't he interested in letting go of his religious beliefs and deconstructing his own reality to a really deep level?

Cause it would destroy him. He's got too many intellectual attachments that he is invested in defending. His whole career hinges on it.

33 minutes ago, Jakuchu said:

@Leo Gura I am still struggling to understand the majority of people. 8hrs+ of slave labor for decades just to survive is acceptable but 1hr of meditation for a few years to reach truth is too much? Like how... 

1) Realistically 1hr/day for a few years is not nearly enough to reach truth for most people.

2) People just don't give a fuck about truth. They wouldn't pay a dollar to get it.

3) People don't think 5 years ahead. They are thinking about how to pay their next bill and get laid.

[Jakuchu]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

2) People just don't give a fuck about truth. They wouldn't pay a dollar to get it.

But it's like so natural. You don't even need a crazy level of "baseline" wisdom. It's obvious that life at some point should be going in a existential/meditative direction 

I think peoples idea of wisdom is to live life on a egoic level and then when they are cripplingly old, to gain some of it. But that's not wise. You wanna live a wise, selfless life, not live life and then become wise

Edited February 13, 2022 by Jakuchu

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Terell Kirby said:

Yeah .. and unfortunately there's no magic pill humans can take to acquire the grit and hustle to do this.

I would've thought that JP had the grit and hustle to do it. 

[Matthew85]

18 minutes ago, Jakuchu said:

I think peoples idea of wisdom is to live life on a egoic level and then when they are cripplingly old to gain some of it. But that's not wise. You wanna live a wise, selfless life, not live life and then become wise

I have had a similar perspective before. Then as my awareness expanded even more, I realized all explorations are equally valid. Even if you choose to spend millions of years exploring being deeply unconscious. That is just as valid as anything else. 

[Jakuchu]

6 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

I would've thought that JP had the grit and hustle to do it. 

He has the grit and hustle to do debates. A debate basically is an intellectual boxing match 

[Hardkill]

4 minutes ago, Jakuchu said:

He has the grit and hustle to do debates. A debate basically is an intellectual boxing match 

And he has become a highly accomplished person in many areas of his life. It must've taken a great deal of hard work, discipline, ambition, and determination on his part in order to have reached the level of overall intellect and success that he has achieved.

So, how does one know if they are truly ready to use psychedelics or deconstruct your reality?

[Jakuchu]

13 hours ago, Matthew85 said:

I have had a similar perspective before. Then as my awareness expanded even more, I realized all explorations are equally valid. Even if you choose to spend millions of years exploring being deeply unconscious. That is just as valid as anything else. 

No, you are too relativistic

I am not saying it's wrong or anything but you can be a sheep or a buddha, I go for buddha. You can endorse sheephood if you want 

The regrets millions of people have on their death bed is sign enough that it's not all equally valid

Edited February 14, 2022 by Jakuchu

[Matthew85]

11 hours ago, Hardkill said:

So, how does one know if they are truly ready to use psychedelics or deconstruct your reality?

For me it was a deep inner calling. We are all exploring different themes. Most people will have no interest or calling to deconstruct reality. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Matthew85

[Jakuchu]

5 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

So, how does one know if they are truly ready to use psychedelics or deconstruct your reality?

You are on this forum asking this specific question, you look ready to me 

[Matthew85]

4 minutes ago, Jakuchu said:

No, you are too relativistic

I am not saying it's wrong or anything but you can be a sheep or a buddha, I take buddha. You can endorse sheephood if you want 

The regrets millions of people have on their death bed is sign enough that it's not all equally valid

You as God want to explore it all. That includes being Buddha and a sheep. Death in an illusion of our human finite mind. 

[Tim R]

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

So, how does one know if they are truly ready to use psychedelics or deconstruct your reality?

Make sure you have some kind of anker, something that you can return to.

People, young people especially, get into spirituality and psychedelics with a mind and world view that isn't yet even fully developed / constructed and they become so fascinated by all this that they go balls to the wall - not wise enough yet to know when to stop or hen to slow down.

And BAM! they crash. And that crash looks different for everybody. 

You can (and here I would even add: should) slowly and methodically go about deconstructing reality. Otherwise you will lose your orientation way to quickly. I know people who did this and who are now simply deluded. 

Our minds always seek equilibrium, so once you start to deconstruct, the mind will immediately reconstruct something to fill the gap. And one has to learn how to reconstruct.

Epistemology is a crucial skill to develop, I can't stress this enough. You have to learn how to think, i.e. how to use your mind. That is of course not only limited to linear, discursive thought.

 

[Carl-Richard]

Haha I'm watching the latest JRE with JBP and apparently he has done kundalini yoga every morning for 20 years now. Around the 2:05:00 mark. He mentions chakras as well

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Jakuchu said:

But it's like so natural. You don't even need a crazy level of "baseline" wisdom. It's obvious that life at some point should be going in a existential/meditative direction 

It's only natural to you because you have higher consciousness as your baseline.

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Haha I'm watching the latest JRE with JBP and apparently he has done kundalini yoga every morning for 20 years now.

That does not speak well for kundalini yoga.

What does it tell you about a spiritual practice that if you do it diligently for 20 years you will still have no idea that you are God?

[Hardkill]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That does not speak well for kundalini yoga.

What does it tell you about a spiritual practice that if you do it diligently for 20 years you will still have no idea that you are God?

So, does Kundalini yoga not work for everybody or does it not work at all for anybody?

Edited February 14, 2022 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

This work is never just a matter of a mechanical technique, it is matter of intention and deconstruction.

Mechanically doing a technique is not consciousness.