Jordan Peterson supports psychedelics

[Hardkill]

I just came across this video of him discussing with Dr. Roland Griffiths a professor of neuroscience, psychiatry, and behavioral science and director of the Psychedelic and Consciousness Research at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. It seems that JP supports the use psychedelics which would be a stage Green trait.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=NGIP-3Q-p_s

[puporing]

@Hardkill Lot of the younger generation of therapists are supportive or at least receptive to the use of psychedelics for treating mental health. Question is how people will gain access to them, how will pharmaceutical companies react etc.

[Jakuchu]

The real question is: do psychedelics support JP?

Looks like they don't 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Jakuchu

[Hardkill]

21 minutes ago, puporing said:

@Hardkill Lot of the younger generation of therapists are supportive or at least receptive to the use of psychedelics for treating mental health. Question is how people will gain access to them, how will pharmaceutical companies react etc.

Yeah I wonder that myself.

However, the point I am making is that Jordan Peterson is from an older generation of therapists and has been widely recognized as more of a conservative. He also has some kind of a stage Green shadow and holds an excess amount of belief in scientism and traditional academia as Leo said. Also, the researcher he interview is from an older generation as well. 

Yet Peterson in that vid really is in favor of something that is not even mainstream yet and could be considered progressive.

I wonder what the moderators on this forum and Leo think about this.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Hardkill

[Tim R]

12 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

I wonder what the moderators on this forum and Leo think about this.

There are multiple posts about JBP and psychedelics, use the search function and you'll find plenty of posts where also Leo commented. 

[Jakuchu]

Just randomly clicked on the latest interview, one minute and fifteen seconds in and on the intro he already is talking about the evil "radical left" and how those people are privileged, yet they moan about everything bla bla bla. His use of the word "radical" is improper. He basically is summarizing all of the left as radicals. So when he says the "radical left", he just means the "left". He has a very reactionary attitude, like as if someone is pointing a gun at him right on the spot. He takes himself and his worldview very serious, which is why he will never realise God 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Jakuchu

[Carl-Richard]

The best way to approach JBP and SD is to look at where he is lacking, which has to do with mostly Green values.

He is an atypical intellectual in that his mind is not incompatible with that kind of thinking (in the descriptive realm), but he has a blockage that doesn't allow him translate that over to the normative realm (how one should act in the world). So he can entertain wildy abstract and holistic models about cognition, constructivism and narratives, but when it comes to politics and morality, it's mostly Judeo-Christian essentialism. 

On the other hand, his fixation on the Judeo-Christian lineage is indeed connected to (if not entirely grounded) in his psychological understanding, which if we grant that his psychological understanding is as advanced as it is, then the explanation for this fixation is not cognitive underdevelopment but cultural/contextual factors (SD merges both into one construct; value systems. Lines/facets are derived after the fact). This is yet another example that we need developmental models that better take into account contextual factors

...or maybe he is just way more advanced than all of us and that the Green he is reacting to is indeed a virus (after all, he was a socialist in his early years and got a BA in political science) ?

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Tim R said:

There are multiple posts about JBP and psychedelics, use the search function and you'll find plenty of posts where also Leo commented. 

I already used the search function as best as I could to find posts about Leo comment on JDP and psychedelics. All I could find from Leo posts were: 

On 3/9/2018 at 11:38 PM, Leo Gura said:

Jordan Peterson on anti-depressants?

For fuck sakes! Oh the irony...

Do NOT take anti-depressants! They will screw up your entire system and are difficult to quit and they solve nothing.

Psychedelics will actually treat the root cause, like your dysfunctional psychology, your rationalism, and your energetic blockages.

On 12/29/2019 at 10:46 AM, Leo Gura said:

Imagine if Jordan Peterson was your therapist. God help you.

On 11/22/2021 at 7:13 PM, Leo Gura said:

If someone like Jordan Peterson took enough psychedelics or meditated long enough, he would start to go insane and freak the fuck out as his whole sense of reality collapsed around him. It would be quite dangerous.

 

Other people who posted on this entire forum regarding both JBP and psychedelics have only been saying stuff like "if only Jordan Peterson was open to using psychedelics..."

Yet, no one ever mentioned in any of their posts that JP is very much genuinely open to the use of psychedelics.

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Hardkill

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

The best way to approach JBP and SD is to look at where he is lacking, which has to do with mostly Green values.

He is an atypical intellectual in that his mind is not incompatible with that kind of thinking (in the descriptive realm), but he has a blockage that doesn't allow him translate that over to the normative realm (how one should act in the world). So he can entertain wildy abstract and holistic models about cognition, constructivism and narratives, but when it comes to politics and morality, it's mostly Judeo-Christian essentialism. 

On the other hand, his fixation on the Judeo-Christian lineage is indeed connected to, if not entirely grounded in, his psychological understanding, which if we grant that his psychological understanding is as advanced as it is, then the explanation for the fixation is not cognitive underdevelopment but cultural determinism (SD merges both into one construct; value systems. Lines/facets are derived after the fact). This is yet another example that we need developmental models that better take into account contextual factors

...or maybe he is just way more advanced than all of us and that the Green he is reacting to is indeed a virus (after all, he was a socialist in his early years and got a BA in political science) ?

Hmm.....He seems to be quite a complicated person.

[Leo Gura]

We've known for a long time that he's open to psychedelics and supportive of psychedelics -- because he has taken a bit of them and because they support his religious beliefs with scientific data.

That's all well and good.

But he still has no idea what psychedelics are really doing.

I'm glad though that he supports psychedelics.

[Hardkill]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

We've known for a long time that he's open to psychedelics and supportive of psychedelics -- because he has taken a bit of them and because they support his religious beliefs with scientific data.

That's all well and good.

But he still has no idea what psychedelics are really doing.

I'm glad though that he supports psychedelics.

Oh....I didn't realize that. For some reason, I couldn't find it anywhere on this forum where that was mentioned before.

So, then why hasn't using and supporting psychedelics helped him to eliminate his Green shadow? Is it simply because his religious dogma is too strong?

Edited February 13, 2022 by Hardkill

[PurpleTree]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

because he has taken a bit of them and because they support his religious beliefs with scientific data.

has he? i thought he's been on ssri's or snri's  all his life

and that should be dangerous to take psychedelics because of serotonin syndrome etc.

Edited February 13, 2022 by PurpleTree

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Oh....I didn't realize that. For some reason, I couldn't find it anywhere on this forum where that was mentioned before.

So, then why hasn't using and supporting psychedelics helped him to eliminate his Green shadow? Is it simply because his religious dogma is too strong?

I very much doubt he has taken much of them.

And in the end psychedelics will not work unless you are serious about deconstructing your mind/reality -- which he obviously is not. If anything him taking psychedelics will just drive him deeper into this stubborn Christian worldview. It will tend to mirror back to him his deepest beliefs.

The key is not the psychedelics, it's the deconstruction.

[Hardkill]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I very much doubt he has taken much of them.

And in the end psychedelics will not work unless you are serious about deconstructing your mind/reality -- which he obviously is not. If anything him taking psychedelics will just drive him deeper into this stubborn Christian worldview. It will tend to mirror back to him his deepest beliefs.

The key is not the psychedelics, it's the deconstruction.

Ohh, I see. So, you gotta take enough psychedelics consistently and/or you have to be open-minded enough to truly let go of your ego and current worldviews in order to truly transcend through solid Green and beyond.

Yeah, so you're saying that the only thing psychedelics has done for JP is only support his own religious beliefs in his own mind.  

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Yeah, so you're saying that the only thing psychedelics has done for JP is only support his own religious beliefs in his own mind.

I think they have allowed him to access God, but God as other, not as self, and the Christian version of God. So it's pretty limited.

He has seen the tip of the iceberg. Just the tip.

[Hardkill]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I think they have allowed him to access God, but God as other, not as self, and the Christian version of God. So it's pretty limited.

He has seen the tip of the iceberg. Just the tip.

I see. So, he still only perceives God at a superficial level.

Why do you think he doesn't want to give up his christian beliefs of God?

Edited February 13, 2022 by Hardkill

[Terell Kirby]

@Leo Gura seems as though psychedelic use does not guarantee full God-realization in every instance.

I wonder what does? ..well aware that whatever it is , is not associated with some biological/genetic mechanism. (science being an ego-ic construction).

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

I see. So, he still only perceives God at a superficial level.

It's not superficial to him.

But it is superficial for our work.

4 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

@Leo Gura seems as though psychedelic use does not guarantee full God-realization in every instance.

I wonder what does? ..well aware that whatever it is , is not associated with some biological/genetic mechanism. (science being an ego-ic construction).

Biology and genetics certainly play a huge role.

But mostly it's just a lack of serious intention. Most people are not serious about reaching truth, and they are not willing to do the work to deconstruct everything. You have to want this bad enough to do years of work. Most people just don't want it. In fact, they actively avoid it.

They have one bad trip and they never return.

[Hardkill]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not superficial to him.

But it is superficial for our work.

So, why isn't he interested in letting go of his religious beliefs and deconstructing his own reality to a really deep level?

[Terell Kirby]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Most people are not serious about reaching truth, and they are not willing to do the work to deconstruct everything. You have to want this bad enough to do years of work.

Yeah .. and unfortunately there's no magic pill humans can take to acquire the grit and hustle to do this.