A rant against the whole rating culture of women

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

She isn't settling. She is attracted to strength, which is independent of looks.

If women are turned on by a man’s strength then why isn’t having an impressive muscular/fit physique or great physical strength isn’t enough for a guy to get laid easily? Or what about having above average athleticism? How about being a military soldier or police officer or fire fighter?

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Hardkill said:

So, then would you recommend that guys who are total newbies to pickup and sexually inexperienced  should start off sleeping with average girls?

Yes

[Nightwise]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But despite those subjective disagreements, there is wide agreement among people as to what counts as a hot girl. That is why strippers and models get paid for their bodies very consistently. Everyone recognizes a beautiful face or body instantly. Girls recognize it too. Don't pretend like you don't know which of your girlfriends are bombshells. And don't pretend like you don't recognize male-model looking dudes. Our brains are wired to recognize beauty, even if there are subjective quirks in taste.

If I show a photo of a 10 to a group of guys, they will unanimously say, "God damn! You slept with her??? No way!" Plenty of guys will even struggle to believe that is possible. It can shatter a guy's reality to know such things are possible.

From a guy's subjective POV there is a huge difference between having sex with a 6 vs a 10. Many guys might simply be too intimidated to fuck a 10 even if she is begging him for it. Even approaching a 10 is hard for most guys.

You might say this is all shallow and none of this matters. Yeah, for a girl none of this matters. But for a guy it matters very much.

I thought about this. At first I didn't really feel inclined to agree with you. I still think there is a lot more to be said about, but looking through my own experiences I can indeed affirm that there are some girls where their very 'hotness' enchants me in some way.

At first I had more of a feeling that that the way we as a western society consider girls to be "hot" has a lot more to do with social conditioning than something that would actually be biologically hardwired. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe in jamaican culture it as very attractive if a woman is fat and overweight (although only we in western culture call it 'overweight'. They would call it the right weight). In other cultures, a woman having a monobrow is seen as immensely attractive, which I personally don't find attractive whatsoever. That makes you suspect that a girl being hot has a lot more to do with social conditioning than biology.

I also thought about a girl who a couple years ago I had the kneejerk response to judge her as really, really hot. The woman I'm talking about is Ivanka Trump. Right now however, I don't really have that same tendency anymore to judge her as being 'hot'. I don't see her in that light anymore. I'm not just saying that because she has aged (which she has, which does matter some bit), but because I lost the tendency to see women through that filter anymore. I changed my psychology and now I just have the perspective that I just take women and girls for how they are, without any sort of filter or colored glasses that give girls labels and evaluations. Yes, I must acknowledge that girls and women that other guys would judge as being 'hot' I personally also tend to be more attracted towards, but in my mind I don't give her that label anymore and therefore I am not putting her on a pedestal. I might be deceiving myself, but I genuinly think that because of the fact that I don't give 'hot' women labels and evaluations, I'm more open to just take them for how they are without mental filters and that makes it so that I'm barely any more intimidated by a typical hot girl than by an average girl. What might happen is that these so-called hot girls will give you more shit-tests which may destabilize my confidence a little bit, but then it would be because of that that I would have worse results with them and not because I've brainwashed myself to think that they're out of my league.

It does make you think how much of our perception of hotness is based upon social conditioning, and what our perception would be if we remove the social conditioning from it.

But in a sense, I must admit I'm a little bit confused about what is hot or attractive in women and girls in a biological sense: Partially because I'm very open-minded and willing to explore different types of women, partially because I'm genuinly willing and trying and also succeeding in looking for and seeing the beauty of her spiritual and feminine depth that goes beyond any form, and partially because I hold some anger that women are being judged in a way that either puts them (in my opinion) way too much on a pedestal, or causes them to be easily dismissed and ignored in often quite callous and heartless ways.

The example that came to mind that made me understood why the 'hotness' of a girl is important in a biological sense, is when I thought of a scene I've seen that included Emma Stone and another girl at a table in a movie. In this scene, the character of Ryan Gosling approaches their table and starts flirting with this Emma Stone character. I thought about this scene, and I realized that I myself indeed would be way more inclined and interested in at least a biological sense to want to game and be with Emma Stone, and not this other girl who I don't see as being as hot as Emma. Taking this scene as an example in mind, I came to understand why being hot does matter, even though personally I don't even like it that it is that way.

I'll link the scene for reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIkOJkv81-I

 

Although I'm not doing game right now and haven't done it in many years, I think I want my game to be a combination of instinct and compassion. I think I would want to get a right mix between gaming girls for getting what I want, or getting what my biology wants (hot girls, primarily), and gaming girls for giving the gift of my love and sexual energy. This would imply that I would attract girls that are not as hot, commonly speaking, for the sake of giving her the compassion, love and sexual ecstacy that she so deeply longs for. Hot girls get plenty of that, non-hot girls generally don't. So I feel it to be as an important spiritual responsibility to give myself to women that other men generally don't find so attractive and generally wouldn't go for. I have noticed actually that if you can connect your spiritual heart to your sexual desires, girls and women that society generally would deem to be unattractive can actually become really attractive and arousing in your eyes; Even if they're old, fat and ugly (ugly in appearance; not in character or energy), it is still possible (but hard) to come from that frame of mind and be attracted and even aroused by such women. But you have to be willing to see beyond the veil of appearance.

Little side tangent: There's a reason why in porn there's also many views (sometimes millions) on videos that feature older and/or fatter women. The same often counts for women who don't have great standards of physical beauty but who are just really fucking into it and doing intense scenes; Something like that is also very attractive to men: Her sexual receptiveness, or her being sexually very proactive/her 'sluttiness'. I find Sasha Grey for that very reason immensely attractive and arousing. Hotness still isn't that objective as it often seems to be. If someone can get really aroused by a mature, fat woman, I still do wonder what the hotness of a conventional hot girl really consists of as an objective measure. I myself can for instance get quite sexually aroused by an older woman whose body just has really great proportions for my personal taste, even defeating the necessity of looking for something of beauty and attractiveness that goes beyond physical form which I talked about in the paragraph above. Once again it raises the question what hotness or biological attractiveness really is.

Moving on with what I was talking about before: I also would find both the instinctual satisfaction and the challenge of gaming hot girls also important for a multitude of reasons. The first reason is that it would keep me sharp because hotter women have a greater amount of (good) options so they will likely shit test you more and make it harder for you; It would be good training.

The second reason being that I would want to stay connected with my immediate primal instincts, and I don't always want to have to hold myself back in order to keep myself to higher, more spiritual standards. There's something very freeing about just being able to follow your primal, immediate sexual instincts without thinking about it. (I'm not talking about something like rape, lol. But being able to express those sexual instincts in game in non-scandalous ways is important)

The third reason is honestly just to prove to myself that I can, and that I'm not hiding behind theories and excuses of unconditional love because I would in actuality be too incompetent to actually succesfully game 9's and 10's. I sometimes need experiental confirmation just to know I'm not deluding myself and protecting my ego with stories of unconditional love and all of that because in reality I would not be able to get 9's and 10's.

All of that being said, I also, like I said before, want to game girls who aren't hot at all for the sake of love and compassion and doing something for them instead of doing it for myself. I want my game to be a mix of gaming for the satisfaction of my own needs for one half of it, and for the other half I want do it out of love, for her. And I do feel that doing it out of love also implies that I as a man have the responsibility to seek out the girls who seek love and attention the most, which usually are girls who aren't seen as very attractive in the eyes of most. Of course, this doesn't have to be something of self-sacrifice per se if I am able to connect deeply enough with my spiritual heart that is able to see the divinity within her. In that way, it becomes much more of an act of true love instead of doing it because I 'should'.

So kind of make it 50/50, is my plan. 50% hot girls, 50% less attractive girls for the sake of serving her. Of course, it doesn't have to be this black-and-white. I can come into a venue with the intention of giving my love to less attractive girls, and end up doing it for a girl who happens to be hot. Or maybe I can go into a venue without any premeditated intention and end up mixing wanting to go after my primal instincts and going for hot girls (or at least girls I personally find hot), and also mixing it with doing it for the sake of service and love and end up with a girl that is a mix of these two intentions: A girl that is fairly attractive but not super hot per se.

There is something really powerful and alpha actually about very intentionally going after the less attractive girls (or at least they are generally seen as such). You sacrifice your ego in this way because not only are you acting from a higher purpose of Love and thereby needing to sacrifice perhaps some of your instinctual sexual cravings, but you also are willing to put your whole reputation on the line; at least in that environment. Both men and women might very well think that you don't value yourself very much because you're going after the less attractive girls. They might very well think you're doing that because you wouldn't be able and competent to game hotter girls. And you just have to accept those judgements and decide to not give two shits about what other people think of you, and own up to your own vision for why you are gaming these girls. There's something really powerful about going for what it is that you decide to go for, unapologetically and unphased in the face of other people's judgement of you.

And who knows, maybe the opposite happens where you are being seen as this high-value man, and then the girls you choose to engage with will also be raised in their status and maybe other men who would normally not take a second look at them will also start to believe that those girls are hot because you see a certain hotness in them.

Elliot Hulse has a nice video about this latest point, actually.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUgqmAy1R44&t=2s

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Nightwise

[Miguel1]

@Nightwise

I skimmed through this thread. At first I sensed too many bullshits from you. But it got quite a lot better towards the end.

I would suggest you to keep in mind the brutality of survival. The spiritual bubble of ''unconditional love'' can become a deep trap that holds you from growing, basically I'm talking about by-passing here. I was in it myself. Survival is brutal and if you don't work fucking hard to the top, you won't get the top options. If you want to be in Infinite Love, it is not really doable and sustainable here in the finite world - we have limited, finite amount of supply of everything, including the hot girls. And they are hot precisely because they are rare.

Also, keep in mind that if you reward girls who don't put serious effort into taking care of their bodies and looks in the name of ''spiritual love'', then you are probably doing them more harm than good.

Overall, I clearly sense more fear and ego defense-mechanism(s), than love and abundance. Think of how different you would think about all of this, if all your life, you would have tens and nines in your life, wanting to be with you, treating you well, and loving you. It would be very hard to bullshit yourself from this place to ''I want to be and have sex with ugly women, to give them love, even if it affects my status and image, I will sacrifice it for love!'', lol. Sounds stupid as hell and a very convenient excuse not to work on yourself. Survival is brutal. Welcome to life.

Other than that, visit my most recent thread. We went quite deep into kinda similar topic. You could find an answer or two there.

[LordFall]

You guys are are overthinking it. You can't make all of life woohoo and spiritual, you're a mammal mate.

Do you want to fuck "hot" girls? If yes, go out and do it. You say that doesn't particularly appeal to you, then amazing the only question is really are you able to attract, date and sleep with girls that are attractive to you? 

Be careful of falling into the trap of subjectivity, there is such a thing as objective beauty. All of life is beautiful but if you want to look at an empty fridge instead of mountain landscape then you're either enlightened beyond anything I've seen or delusional. 

You can choose to ignore the social hierarchy but don't try to fool yourself into thinking it doesn't exist. 

Probably you don't have the value/game to attract girls that are on the higher scale of society, whether that's in looks or status. There are advantages that come from playing that game that regular men will never enjoy. You can fool yourself into thinking that you've reached a higher level of connection and are below shallow constructs of the lower consciousness people but that's all it is.

My personal goal is to find a few girls I like, make a passive income and travel the world with them. That seems simple in theory but I've met hundreds of guys that live nowhere close to that lifestyle so it's clearly a 0.01% royalty goal. That's what I will do and I will put the effort in to make that crazy goal happen.

Whatever your crazy goal is, do yourself the favor of doing the same. 

[Nahm]

@Nightwise

Reoccurring theme in your expression of wanted, is submissive. The discord is with that, and not with any guys & what they want, or with any girls and how they act, dress or look. Inspect why you believe you want a submissive partner to see through & be free of, the discord. 

 

[Epikur]

It can be a fun sport to rate girls with a buddy. It is like rating art. It is fun. 

It becomes annoying if the guy has a to differing taste. It is then like rating post modern art. 

 

[Javfly33]

On 14/2/2022 at 1:05 AM, Nightwise said:

You're correct about that in a way, although I'm not consciously and deliberately giving women numbers. What I get upset about, however, is that the way most men rate women is based upon lower-consciousness superficial traits that have to do with 'meat value' and perhaps her sense of entitlement and exclusiveness. This promotes pride and arrogance for the women that do qualify for those traits, and it generates feelings of low self-worth and perhaps even shame for the women that don't have the appropriate traits. It creates a lot of collective suffering that way. That is the thing I get upset about.

@Nightwise 

I 100% agree. But I think that you might be "above that" now because you have had some succcess with women and have "burned" the material Desire/karma so you see Now the "falsehood" of It. I also agree that IS a low conscious way of rating women. But I also think that sexual attraction is low Consciousness overall. Also notice that rating by personality traits its also biased and selfish. What about the hot Girls with great tits and ass that are not that smart or interesting? ? Pity them... because some brains cant change in the same Way an average maybe cant ever be (physically) a 9. 

On 14/2/2022 at 1:05 AM, Nightwise said:

That's great! I'm glad you met her. But did you date her for the same reason many other guys would date her? Meaning: Do you date her because she's 'hot', or do you date her because of her character? Is your rating of her being a '9' based upon the way most guys would define a 9, or is she a 9 for you because of her very character? If it's because of the first thing, is the fact that she is into non-duality, compassionate and healthy and all of that just a nice bonus? Or are those very character traits the core of why you dated her and is the fact that she happens to be 'hot' just a nice, extra bonus?

I wonder. Would you date a girl that society would deem to be a '5' if she had all of those character traits that the 9 had that you dated?@Nightwise 

 

I didnt date her. ( I just knew her- shard flat with her for some time).

Yes, you might be right that i am elevating the rating from maybe a 7-8 physical to a 9 or 10 since she also showed high Consciousness rare personality Affinity and traits. 

But i also Will you this: if she wasnt physically hot in the first place I would find hard to get attached/interested in her.

But Im a man which is still struggling to attract Girls and overall i am conscious that i have karmic debt of material attachment and overall Focus as you say, in "meat value".

And i must say, It feels i cant help It. Now It is What It is. I suspect that in the future I Will start to think more like you, But right now i am where i am...

[hamedsf]

I'm not gonna really blame those 9's and 10's for being arrogant that much. coz since they became adults, all sorts of simp males have favored 'em in order to get into their pants. every desperate guy has put her on a pedestal like she was a gift from the sky. so part of it is because of it. 

well, if she's gorgeous and has some decent behaviors at the same time, she's the one and maybe, who knows, a wife in the future!