A rant against the whole rating culture of women

[Nightwise]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Congrats! You just re-invented Mystery Method.

BTW, you should notice that you just stereotyped and insulted all the most attractive women as being arrogant, shallow, fake, and untrustworthy.

How wise of you.

I do wonder though. What actually is attractiveness? So it is true that I conflated a girl who is considered to be a 9 or a 10 by society in my mind with a girl who tends to be arrogant and haughty, but I suppose I made that correlation partially because I wanted to vent some anger but also because I feel that the whole idea in the PUA community about girls who they consider to be 9's or 10's are the kind of girls who are often 'out of their league', who are exclusive and hard to get, where it really becomes a game of who has the highest status and social value. It's the the kind of Spiral Dynamics stage orange approach to what one would consider to be attractive, and the girls who fit this picture of the ideal woman according to stage orange standards would at the very least be tempted to start acting more entitled and arrogant because of all the validation, praise and attention they're getting from so many guys. And my feeling is that this whole notion of the perfect woman according to stage orange qualifications is that it is the very woman you can't get, because it's all about status and sexual market value according to orange. Sometimes it kinda feels to me as if it's her very sense of entitlement, exclusiveness and possibly even indeed arrogance that makes it so many guys would consider her to be a 10.

And that is what my post is about. That is the thing that I rebel against: That —at least in part— her very entitlement and haughtiness itself is a qualification for attractiveness. And I just don't like this kind of attitude in people where they act like they're above it all and like they're deserve it all (but to be very honest, I myself might run risk of falling prey to that as I can be quite entitled at times).

But it does raise an interesting question for me though: What —if not for her sense of entitlement— would make a girl attractive? You could perhaps make the argument that it's about confidence and not entitlement in a woman, but honestly, personally I am not very attracted to confident women so much. It's not to say that I am repelled by confident women, but it's not the thing that I really yearn for in a woman

Let me ask you Leo, what is an attractive woman? What is attractiveness to begin with? Is what you would call an attractive woman the same woman that many guys would judge as a 9 or a 10?  If so, why? What makes this girl attractive in particular, if not for her sense of entitlement? I'm genuinly not sure what it would be then. 

 

[Nightwise]

12 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

There are some girls that can be total douchebags, of course. But most of 9s and 10s show that behavior as a test to for selection. The fact that you get emotional triggered from her games already tells her that you are needy and not enough grounded for her. Like I said, it's a "preconfigured" attitude they usually have because they get approached so much and are desired by so many. 

That's an interesting way to think about it. My feeling is that what you say about I'm not grounded enough for her because I get reactive isn't true, but for all I know I might be wrong about that. It does give me something to think and contemplate about. I've got to be self-honest and humble about that.

 

12 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

15 hours ago, Nightwise said:

 

I personally look for the goddess in her character. Is she feminine? Is she humble? Is she receptive? Is she submissive? Is she willing to give all of herself to me... THAT'S the kind of woman I would want to date and be with.

Not all women per se, but for some reason with some women I just find them genuinly more attractive when they're not wearing any make-up whatsoever. I just love to see them who they are in all of their purity and simplicity. There is something really attractive to me in seeing a woman in her most raw and unpolished form.

If she's got those things which I mentioned above, that's nice and all, but I do notice that's just my initial biological kneejerk reaction. I'm very much willing to look past a lack of those physical traits if the girl I'm meeting is very humble, submissive and compassionate, or at least willing to open up and work on becoming more like that.

But that's still rating them. See, you do it like everybody else.

You're correct about that in a way, although I'm not consciously and deliberately giving women numbers. What I get upset about, however, is that the way most men rate women is based upon lower-consciousness superficial traits that have to do with 'meat value' and perhaps her sense of entitlement and exclusiveness. This promotes pride and arrogance for the women that do qualify for those traits, and it generates feelings of low self-worth and perhaps even shame for the women that don't have the appropriate traits. It creates a lot of collective suffering that way. That is the thing I get upset about.

 

12 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

There are 9s and 10s that are not arrogant , haughty or go into surgery.

Last 9 I met was into non-duality, very compassionate/intuitive, was a healthy girl (do daily exercise) and was a nurse. Careful with the stereotypical beliefs.

She's going to be very selective in regards to sex, however. It doesn't matter. The Sex game is a selfish and biased game.

That's great! I'm glad you met her. But did you date her for the same reason many other guys would date her? Meaning: Do you date her because she's 'hot', or do you date her because of her character? Is your rating of her being a '9' based upon the way most guys would define a 9, or is she a 9 for you because of her very character? If it's because of the first thing, is the fact that she is into non-duality, compassionate and healthy and all of that just a nice bonus? Or are those very character traits the core of why you dated her and is the fact that she happens to be 'hot' just a nice, extra bonus?

I wonder. Would you date a girl that society would deem to be a '5' if she had all of those character traits that the 9 had that you dated?

12 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

That doesn't have anything to do with attraction and dating girls. You can have all the compassion and love in the world but that won't get you girls. Although having that in top of having game would make you more interesting high quality man for some girls definitely. 

You're right about that. Compassion and unconditional love isn't sexual attraction. But it is important. More important that being attractive, I would personally say.

[Nightwise]

12 hours ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

I don't personally use the scale, because honestly, any girl/woman that lives a healthy lifestyle, and works out regurarly is a 10 in my eyes (unlike these cringy fat acceptance women). But I understand why the scale is used in pickup, it's because the more conventionally attractive the girl is, the more difficult (mostly) it is to get her.

I appreciate that you see it that way

Quote

This judgement of yours tells us more about you, than about the topic.

I know it does.

[Jacquelope]

12 hours ago, Something Funny said:

@Leo Gura I agree that it is stupid and insecure to stereotype women based on their looks. For example automatically assuming that she is shallow and arrogant because she is hot.

But seriously, what is the point of grading girl's looks besides boosting your ego (I've slept with a 10 look how cool I am and how good my game is)?

You just see a girl and either find her attractive or not and approach her based on that. Why do you feel the need to put a number on her?  

More men need to come out and say exactly this to the younger and impressionable men of the world. Though I would say wait and see if she's also got an attractive personality before making one's move. Men are way too obsessed with looks, it's just not healthy.

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Nightwise said:

her very entitlement and haughtiness itself is a qualification for attractiveness.

You got it backwards. Girls are not hot because they are arrogant, they get arrogant because they are hot and have enormous sexual options from a young age. So then they get spoiled because guys throw themselves at these girls and these girls learn from a young age they can use their looks to skate by in life. It gets them all sorts of free shit and access they would never otherwise get.

A striper in Vegas can earn several thousand per night.

Hot girls have it so easy in life they tend to become shallow, spoiled, and weak.

Of course this is a gross generalization, but there is truth to it.

[Yali]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Girls are not hot because they are arrogant, they get arrogant because they are hot and have enormous sexual options from a young age.

why would such an arrogant girl settle for a guy below her looks-match just because he has "Game"?

@Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Nightwise said:

What makes this girl attractive in particular, if not for her sense of entitlement?

Her exceptional body.

You are overthinking this.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Yali said:

why would such an arrogant girl settle for a guy below her looks-match just because he has "Game"?

@Leo Gura

She isn't settling. She is attracted to strength, which is independent of looks.

[Yali]

@Leo Gura ok. but a women can be attracted to a guy's strength/looks but ultimately not be compatible personality wise.

infatuation is different from compatibility .. you would agree?

Edited February 14, 2022 by Yali

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Yali said:

but a women can be attracted to a guy's strength/looks but ultimately not be compatible personality wise.

infatuation is different from compatibility .. you would agree?

Yeah, and?

[Yali]

@Leo Gura which type of girl would you prefer for a long-term romantic relationship

• high physical attraction but average mental attraction
• high mental attraction but average physical attraction

Edited February 14, 2022 by Yali

[Leo Gura]

@Yali I would refuse that compromise.

[Yali]

high physical attraction but average mental attraction == hookup

high mental attraction but average physical attraction == friendship

high physical attraction and high mental attraction == long-term relationship

@Leo Gura

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Yali

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Yali said:

@Leo Gura what gives you the right to be so arrogant 

choose one

I have high standards for everything in life, not just women.

If I am buying a laptop, I have super high standards. Makes it hard to buy a laptop, but when I do it is awesome.

[Yali]

your standards rose as you started to attract hot girls

Quote

I have high standards for everything in life, not just women.

before pickup you were probably insecure as are most guys

@Leo Gura

Edited February 14, 2022 by Yali

[Yali]

@Leo Gura

make a video on the institution of marriage. I feel like you'd have interesting thoughts on this topic

[Preety_India]

35 minutes ago, Yali said:

@Leo Gura ok. but a women can be attracted to a guy's strength/looks but ultimately not be compatible personality wise.

infatuation is different from compatibility .. you would agree?

Yes this is a very important point. A woman can be attracted to a guy's strength and looks, especially looks, but ultimately not be compatible personality wise. 

There are lots of attractive men, lots of them... But that doesn't translate as harmony, compatibility, chemistry..... passion, commitment, understanding, connection and intimacy/bonding. 

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Preety_India

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, Yali said:

your standards rose as you started to attract hot girls

before pickup you were probably insecure as are most guys

@Leo Gura

I always had high standards for women. Which is why I didn't date much.

Pickup taught me to lower my standards. I deliberately had sex with girls I wasn't into just to lower my standards.

[Yali]

@Leo Gura what's been your longest relationship?

how many long-term relationships (1 year+) have you had?

[Hardkill]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I always had high standards for women. Which is why I didn't date much.

Pickup taught me to lower my standards. I deliberately had sex with girls I wasn't into just to lower my standards.

So, then would you recommend that guys who are total newbies to pickup and sexually inexperienced  should start off sleeping with average girls?

Edited February 14, 2022 by Hardkill