Simply explaining my idea of spirituality using philosophical jargon :)

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Judy2 said:

@Carl-Richard thank you for your thorough response. 

Np 

 

20 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Carl-Richard I've to say that I'm really enjoying your posts lately. 

Haha yeah I'm on a roll ? Thank you though!

 

11 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Carl-Richard beautifully put.

?

[Carl-Richard]

9 hours ago, Adamq8 said:

I would say that Moses, Jesus etc, was not panentheists, you can deepen your "understanding " and experience of God infinitley, because he so transcends the world , but also immanent.

Its monotheism but also trinitarianism.

I think they were pantheists (at least Jesus was ). Jesus was a true mystic. Monotheism is what happens when those teachings get translated in a Faustian/Patriarchical world (the world of great empires).

 

9 hours ago, Adamq8 said:

What is the strongest argument for/against for both worldviews in your view?

Idealism, pantheism and mysticism make up the simplest, most parsimonious worldview (having the least assumptions), because they collapse ontology ("what is") and epistemology ("how to know what is") into one thing. They're simply different ways of expressing Oneness.

[PurpleTree]

8 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Because I felt like it. It's an Islamic custom to say Muhammad PBUH.

They also often say it when they talk about Jesus i think.

[SgtPepper]

10 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Because God is not separate from reality.

Just to clarify, panentheism doesn't say that God is separate from reality, but rather that reality is within God and God can transcend the reality too. 

 

[Carl-Richard]

6 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

Just to clarify, panentheism doesn't say that God is separate from reality, but rather that reality is within God and God can transcend the reality too. 

But then you have to define reality and God as two distinct things. If your definition of reality is not everything that exists but instead a finite universe, then sure, but even there, God is still the fundamental reality (everything that exists).

[Michal__]

8 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I think they were pantheists (at least Jesus was ). Jesus was a true mystic. Monotheism is what happens when those teachings get translated in a Faustian/Patriarchical world (the world of great empires).

A side note: Moses was on a similar level as Jesus when it comes to mysticism. 

[Carl-Richard]

8 minutes ago, Michal__ said:

A side note: Moses was on a similar level as Jesus when it comes to mysticism. 

Definitely.

[Leo Gura]

Don't forget:

Solipsism

- Nothing exists but the Self

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't forget:

Solipsism

- Nothing exists but the Self

That means me + you = self? Or me = self and you = another self? 

 

[Leo Gura]

Self means no other.

Whatever you think is other, is you.

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Self means no other.

If this self includes everyone, then it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Right? 

[Leilani]

@Leo Gura it's interesting you say the higher you go the more alone you are. The seperation when in duality causes a sense of lonliness when you perceive yourself as seperate you feel alone. In my experiences I felt less lonely or that wasn't ever on my radar as I was so caught up in the experience. Seeing all as cells within one body. I too have had terrifying experiences where it felt like nothing was real I had one experience multiple times from just smoking weed where I felt like I went back to the "beginning" silence and a feeling of going from orgasmic bliss to utter terror. Like I was coming together just to be broken apart into tiny little pieces I "knew" this was eternity. My body would go into random yogic positions and I couldnt grasp onto anything I felt like I was dying. I felt unholy and dirty. I also asked this question many times to people who have had these experiences of becoming the void or becoming love/God and they all say there is no loneliness whatsoever. One person described it as feeling as if she had been washed clean.  I wonder why you don't make that distinction between aloneness and lonely? This is why I like talking with people who have had near death experiences or awakenings that weren't brought on my psychedelics they seem to have a cleaner feel to them with less fear. I sense you have a hard time with the alone feel and almost want to hammer it in to other people. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Leilani

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't forget:

Solipsism

- Nothing exists but the Self

??

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Preety_India said:

If this self includes everyone, then it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Right? 

It includes them as what they are: projections of your mind.

29 minutes ago, Leilani said:

@Leo Gura Like I was coming together just to be broken apart into tiny little pieces I "knew" this was eternity. My body would go into random yogic positions and I couldnt grasp onto anything I felt like I was dying. I felt unholy and dirty. I also asked this question many times to people who have had these experiences of becoming the void or becoming love/God and they all say there is no loneliness whatsoever. One person described it as feeling as if she had been washed clean.  I wonder why you don't make that distinction between aloneness and lonely? This is why I like talking with people who have had near death experiences or awakenings that weren't brought on my psychedelics they seem to have a cleaner feel to them with less fear. I sense you have a hard time with the alone feel and almost want to hammer it in to other people. 

Bliss/terror

Alone/together

Both tend to arise together.

It's gonna freak you out when you realize your mother is imaginary. Hard to avoid that. Once you face and surrender to that, then the love and bliss comes.

[Leilani]

@Leo Gura I already experienced that it helped to read the books put out by near death experiencers as they talk about how our indentitys as humans arent real I dont know the way they explain everything although shocking just wasn't so frightening. I remember years ago talking with this guy who reached the light through shear will was talking to me about how my daughter wasn't real. Freaked me out but he reassured me that being that light was not lonely in any way whatsover. Also I was relieved to know Leilani doesn't exist forever ? 

[Leilani]

This guys insights that I was talking about in the above text (he says nde but it was through a meditstion session in his room)

Ten lessons I learned from my experience of the afterlife:

1.  This universe is all a dream.  So it is the most natural thing possible to desire to return to the Light

2.  Before my soul was absorbed temporarily into that Light, I passed through the soul plane.  There I was an individual soul observing Jesus, Buddha, Krishna and others.  Yet even these individual souls are part of the dream.  We all are ultimately the Light.  There is no separate deity nor eternal realm of suffering.  Only the light is eternal.

3.  I am being pulled every second towards my destiny.  There are no wrong steps.  Everything is perfect.  Even if I harm myself or someone else, and even if there are natural consequences, it is all held with infinite compassion, infinite knowledge and infinite love.

If I harm myself I am making it too hard.

4.  The body needs love.  It is natural to want to make love with a soul mate as this energetic nourishment is what the energetic heart and torso organs need 

5.  I also need to rest and be close to nature

6.  Our planet can not sustain anything like this number of human mammals.

7.  The soul comes into human form again and again but remember even the individual soul is part of the dream.  

8.  Almost every human is stressed beyond healthy capacity.  So it pays to live quietly and slowly so as not to step on toes

9.  If I do not share physical closeness and love with my partner regularly, or do not get to rest in nature, my internal energy becomes depleted and I suffer

10.  The purpose of human life is to awaken from the dream of the mind and return to remembering we are the Light.  I am still working on that part.

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Leilani said:

being that light was not lonely in any way whatsover.

It's Infinite Love. Of course it's not lonely once you make it there. But realistically you will not be in that light forever and you will resist it every step of the way.

[Leilani]

@Leo Gura no I get that. It is important to make that distinction though when people ask about the aloness factor. When I finally realized that I was able to really enjoy my life again in a way I hadn't before. I could let go

[SgtPepper]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

But then you have to define reality and God as two distinct things. If your definition of reality is not everything that exists but instead a finite universe, then sure, but even there, God is still the fundamental reality (everything that exists).

I agree and I know what you mean. God is all that there is, so we can't point to anything he is not; therefore pantheism.

It's a paradox because we can certainly know God by pointing to what he isn't such as the Neti Neti method, or Apophatic theology in Christian tradition.

I guess, I am learning it is all a matter of preference of how we prefer to speak about it.

Edited February 13, 2022 by SgtPepper

[Scholar]

16 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I think they were pantheists (at least Jesus was ). Jesus was a true mystic. Monotheism is what happens when those teachings get translated in a Faustian/Patriarchical world (the world of great empires).

 

Idealism, pantheism and mysticism make up the simplest, most parsimonious worldview (having the least assumptions), because they collapse ontology ("what is") and epistemology ("how to know what is") into one thing. They're simply different ways of expressing Oneness.

The issue is that idealism, pantheism and mysticism require a relationship to an opposite to exist. Oneness cannot be conceptualized without it being opposed to Seperation.

Thus, you have fallen into a duality, and called one side of that duality fundamental. That duality is not fundamental, unless it is deemed so.

To pose something is direct, there must be indirectness. To pose something is Experience, there must be a World and an Experiencer. By calling Reality Experience, you have accepted the Opposition to it, you have accepted Seperation, Otherness, Outsidedness.

 

See, if you had no conception of the physical, it would make no sense to call anything mental. What would mental even mean if it was not "non-physical". This is the monkey chasing it's own tail. Reality is not mental, nor is reality physical. Reality is = Reality is = Reality is = Reality is

You attempt to put a boundary on reality, You seek to find it's most fundamental Nature. You seek to capture it so you, in your ignorance, can call it this or that, or can discover it to be this or that.

If you think Separation doesn't exist, then you do not see Separation. Fundamentally, everything that you deny exists. If it did not exist, you could not deny it.

 

And most importantly, just because it doesn't exist doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

Existence is so Absolutely Relative and Groundless, that it doesn't even have to Absolutely Relative and Groundless to be Absolutely Relative and Groundless. It is so Groundless that it is not even Groundless. Look into it.

It is so Groundless that even the Absolute is Realitve, and it is so Relative that the Absolute is Absolute, without being Relative. This is why the impossible is Possible, because there is no Restriction other than every Restriction.

You think Truth is one thing rather than another. But everything is Truth. Not just a little bit, but Absolutely and Relatively. You hold no more or less Truth than an ant does, or Donald Trump does, or the Buddha does. Unless it is deemed so.

 

The irony of the Ego. When it finds Infinity, the first thing it will do is tell itself what Infinity is, not realizing that in that moment, it lost Infinity. Your mind cannot do anything but find a shape in the shapeless. Helpless, like an ant. Because you are not beyond an ant, The only difference is that you could realize your limitation, and how much of an ant you actually are. That the point of your existence is to be an ant, and that you will be an ant until you dissolve completely.

 

As a practice, observe Isness and how it keeps shaping itself. And then, let go of observation until there is no observing left. That observation itself was just another shape. That Isness is so Infinite, that what IS deemed to be most fundamental, is only so because it is deemed so. That even the realization of that, is merely another shape, another deeming of it so.

And then...

 

It is not called Mystery because it is impossible to communicate. It is called Mystery, because it is Mystery.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Scholar