Can flaxseed be used as fish oil alternative?

[rnd]

Can flaxseed be used as fish oil alternative? Or to a certain extent?
Is flaxseed in the oil form better than as seeds?

 

 

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I've bought a small bag of flaxseed, and the seeds are quuuuuuite tiny in size, which is strange. It's not powder. And It says "integral" on the bag.

Edited February 12, 2022 by rnd

[Truth-Seeker]

No, because Flaxseed has an anti-nutrient called Phytic Acid. This thing will chelate and bind to necessary minerals you need in your diet and prevent you from absorbing them from your food. These minerals include Zinc, Magnesium, Calcium and Iron. 

The hypothesis behind why you should avoid seeds and seed oils is that PLANTS DON'T LIKE TO BE EATEN. Animals can just run away from a predator, but plants can't, so they developed ways to protect themselves. Their seeds have anti-nutrients like phytic acid and lectins (lectins are found in peanuts and beans, which are both seeds).  Lectins bind to your gut lining and can cause serious problems. Phytic acid prevents absorption of minerals. 

FFS, the seeds of apples have small amounts of cyanide! 

Leaves, seeds, roots, all have some damaging and dangerous elements to them. They won't break your body down of course, but will make it function less optimally than it COULD. The fruits of plants are colourful and tasty and have no harm to you because they are MEANT to be eaten. The plant wants an animal to eat it and then poop out the seeds so that the plant can reproduce. 

[rnd]

So you claim that all leaves, seeds, roots of any kind of any plant are harmful?

And all seed oils in the word are harmful as well?

 

Where are you getting that from? Do you have any links to scientific studies that support all that?

Edited February 12, 2022 by rnd

[undeather]

6 hours ago, Truth-Seeker said:

No, because Flaxseed has an anti-nutrient called Phytic Acid. This thing will chelate and bind to necessary minerals you need in your diet and prevent you from absorbing them from your food. These minerals include Zinc, Magnesium, Calcium and Iron. 

The hypothesis behind why you should avoid seeds and seed oils is that PLANTS DON'T LIKE TO BE EATEN. Animals can just run away from a predator, but plants can't, so they developed ways to protect themselves. Their seeds have anti-nutrients like phytic acid and lectins (lectins are found in peanuts and beans, which are both seeds).  Lectins bind to your gut lining and can cause serious problems. Phytic acid prevents absorption of minerals. 

FFS, the seeds of apples have small amounts of cyanide! 

Leaves, seeds, roots, all have some damaging and dangerous elements to them. They won't break your body down of course, but will make it function less optimally than it COULD. The fruits of plants are colourful and tasty and have no harm to you because they are MEANT to be eaten. The plant wants an animal to eat it and then poop out the seeds so that the plant can reproduce. 

That's youtube-"doctor" quackery and not to be taken seriously.
There is some rough mechanistic data that suggests that some isolated components might influence mineral binding capacity or gut lining integrity, but its completely taken out of the context by those who use it as an argument.

In fact, if you leave out the theoretical gobbledygook and just epidemiologically observe people in real life, it paints a pretty clear picture: The more beans, lectins, seeds etc. they eat, the healthier they are and the longer they live. 

 

7 hours ago, rnd said:

Can flaxseed be used as fish oil alternative? Or to a certain extent?
Is flaxseed in the oil form better than as seeds?

 

 

---

I've bought a small bag of flaxseed, and the seeds are quuuuuuite tiny in size, which is strange. It's not powder. And It says "integral" on the bag.

Flaxseeds are incredibly healthy and even have strong antihypertensive properties comparable to common drugs. (1)

Flaxseeds contain the (mostly) plant-based omega-3 called alpha-linolenic acid (ALA). The main problem with ALA is that to have the good effects attributed to omega-3s, it must be converted by a limited supply of enzymes into EPA and DHA. As a result, only a small fraction of it has omega-3's effects — 10%–15%, maybe less. The health benefits of fish oil are believed to derive principally from those two omega-3 fats, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).

Now, there are some issues with fish oil as well. Its a highly concetrated product and therefore prone to strong contamination that also varies from source to source. If you want to get the highest quality EPA/DHA product, I would look for a well-tested algae-oil bassed supplement. 

Very important: 
- It should fulfill high quality standards/certifications: GMP, ISO 9001, HACCP
- The best products are from private algae-cultures
- Good manufactures get their oils TOTOX-tested (number used to describe the total oxidative load to which a fat has been exposed)
- Some fraudulent products mix their supplements with other oils, so read the ingredients carefully and evaluate the EPA/DHA content

If you are by chance from germany/austrias/switzerland, this is a company I highly respect & trust: NatuRise

 

(1) Potent Antihypertensive Action of Dietary Flaxseed in Hypertensive Patients | Hypertension (ahajournals.org)

Edited February 12, 2022 by undeather

[rnd]

10 hours ago, undeather said:

 

Flaxseeds are incredibly healthy and even have strong antihypertensive properties comparable to common drugs. (1)

Flaxseeds contain the (mostly) plant-based omega-3 called alpha-linolenic acid (ALA). The main problem with ALA is that to have the good effects attributed to omega-3s, it must be converted by a limited supply of enzymes into EPA and DHA. As a result, only a small fraction of it has omega-3's effects — 10%–15%, maybe less. The health benefits of fish oil are believed to derive principally from those two omega-3 fats, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).
 

(1) Potent Antihypertensive Action of Dietary Flaxseed in Hypertensive Patients | Hypertension (ahajournals.org)

That implies that flaxseeds CAN nonetheless be used as an alternative to fish oil, it's just one would require bigger amount of them compared to fish oil. Right?

Is flaxseeds oil better than pure flaxseeds?

And can nuts be used as an alternative as well?

 

Of course, I'd use fish oil if it didn't have the issues that you've mentioned. Even doing research about what brand is legit will take time. What if I make a mistake by overlooking something in my research? I'd end up consuming heavy metals.

And I also change countries every several months or so, and which would require me to start a research all over again every time.

Edited February 12, 2022 by rnd

[undeather]

30 minutes ago, rnd said:

That implies that flaxseeds CAN nonetheless be used as an alternative to fish oil, it's just one would require bigger amount of them compared to fish oil. Right?

Is flaxseeds oil better than pure flaxseeds?

And can nuts be used as an alternative as well?

 

Of course, I'd use fish oil if it didn't have the issues that you've mentioned. Even doing research about what brand is legit will take time. What if I make a mistake by overlooking something in my research? I'd end up consuming heavy metals.

And I also change countries every several months or so, and which would require me to start a research all over again every time.

No, it doesnt imply that at all. In fact it implies the opposite.
Through flaxseeds alone, you wont be able to get enough DHA/EPA because the enzymatic conversaion of ALA is limited by a genetic factor that you cant really change. Easier said, your body cant produce enough DHA/EPA out of ALA to gain any noticeable benefit.  

Doing reserach wont take too much time. In fact, most good brands are well known and widely avaialble.
Dont overanalyze that stuff - just dont buy the cheapest stuff you find and read through the customer feedback. Its not like you are going to die if you buy a "bad" supplement or something. Just go on amazon, spend 20 minutes looking for a decent one and you will be fine

By the way - 
I personally eat about 20g flaxseeds (Ground!) a day + 2000mg of DHA/EPA supplement 

Edited February 12, 2022 by undeather

[rnd]

3 hours ago, undeather said:

I personally eat about 20g flaxseeds (Ground!) a day + 2000mg of DHA/EPA supplement 

Yesterday I bought a pack of 200mg flaxseeds and today it's getting finished... I think I WILL be able to produce enough DHA/EPA out of ALA  with this pace I think I will

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by rnd

[Human Mint]

Just read this post after eating a banana smothie with lots of flaxseeds. I read the comment of @Truth-Seeker and i was like 'oh shit' but then read @undeather's comment and ahh relief

[Truth-Seeker]

19 hours ago, undeather said:

but its completely taken out of the context by those who use it as an argument.

Can you please elaborate on how holistically the lectins and phytic acid won't cause problems in the long run? The science is clear on their damaging effects and their identity as an anti-nutrient. And just saying that many people who eat seeds are "healthy" won't cut it for me. 

And look, I am not against you, in fact, if you give me any data on holistic benefit, I can eat these things again with less guilt lol! 

Also, fish oil is cheaper than Algae based EPA/DHA. It is good if you get a clean one. Best cheap, clean one is the one from iHerb by California Gold. They show their testing data for every batch which includes levels of mercury being pretty much 0. 

[Truth-Seeker]

@Human Mint Eat whatever you want to eat. Just do it consciously. I am allergic to sesame seeds. I also notice allergy symptoms with other seeds. 

I am not celiac but when I eat gluten, I get sluggish. Eating rice and wheat and oats always gives me brain fog and makes me sleepy and sluggish. As such, I eat them before bed to sleep better. 

Any high dose carb that is starchy will do this to you. 

However, I tested a day where I eat a purely carnivore breakfast (4 eggs and lots of ground beef). Now I got a high dose of protein and then I drank tea with no sugar. I was so focused without being fasted that it shocked me. I was reading many pages of my book which is usually difficult for me without a high dose of caffeine, tea only has 34mg. 

Later on, before the gym, I needed carbs for performance. I ate bananas and blueberries and drizzled honey all over them. Insane energy, clarity, and focus retained even tho the dose of sugar is as high as multiple slices of bread. 

So eat whatever you want, but notice what is happening to you at a mental and physical level. Basically, cutting out grains MIGHT make you have insane clarity and energy and less sluggishness. Cutting out beans and nuts might make you have better bowel movements and less farts. 

Some people have genetics that make them process grains better...I don't think I'm one of them. But if you eat carnivore (plus fruits and dried fruits and honey and tea/coffee and maybe mushrooms too, due to the reasons I mentioned), you are golden with any genetics. 

[undeather]

Quote

Can you please elaborate on how holistically the lectins and phytic acid won't cause problems in the long run? The science is clear on their damaging effects and their identity as an anti-nutrient. And just saying that many people who eat seeds are "healthy" won't cut it for me. 

Harmful (and even beneficial) effects of an individual, isolated compound or phytochemical are often quite different than when the same compound is within the complex food matrix. For this reason, huge amount of epidemiological and RCT evidence has not demonstrated any correlation between so called "antinutrients in food" and health hazards. 

Lets take lectins for example:
- Most "danger"-claims stem from absurd mice studies where they feed copious amounts uncooked lentils/beans to those animals and then find various abnormalities like a leaky gut or low micronutrient status.
- Cooking degrades most of the lectins in foods
- There is not a single high quality trial that showed this result in humans
- There is a direct, around the world correlation between longevity and bean/lentils intake
- Many of the components like galacto-polysaccharides actually protect your intestinal barrier function

There are not many things in nutrition-science that are this well established.
So forget that nonsense. 
Dont believe crazy people like Steven Gundry who want to tell you otherwise. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by undeather

[Baum]

Algae based dha epa supplement is healthiest and surest way.

[undeather]

9 hours ago, rnd said:

Yesterday I bought a pack of 200mg flaxseeds and today it's getting finished... I think I WILL be able to produce enough DHA/EPA out of ALA  with this pace I think I will

 

I think you mean 200g?
DONT do that - thats way too much. You will overwhelm your digestion through fiber overload and get severe constipation if you are unlucky.  
Also, flaxseeds contain some amount of cyanide. Just eat normal amounts and you will be fine. 

Most beneficial effects of Omega3-supplementation will occur at around 1-5g DHA/EPA. 
There is no way of getting to that amount through flaxseeds. Dont be stupid and buy a supplement. 

[Michael569]

6 hours ago, Truth-Seeker said:

The science is clear on their damaging effects and their identity as an anti-nutrient

it isn't actually. You won't find human studies on harmful effect of any antinutrients. All of this is based on mechanistic speculation (in over 99% cases mechanisms fail when developing new drugs) but when people eat these foods their health goes up. The more whole grains, legumes and seeds people eat the better especially when the outcome are the diseases decimating the global population: Type 2 diabetes, cancer, heart disease & stroke. 

[Truth-Seeker]

19 hours ago, undeather said:

So forget that nonsense. 

Thank you so much man! I was feeling guilty and bad about eating Oats, Whole Wheat Bread and Brown/Wild Rice, and Almonds and Peanuts. I genuinely thought that eating them will make me not absorb magnesium in my fish or the calcium in the dairy I'm eating. So me mixing roasted almonds or oats with dairy won't actually cut my calcium absorption if I understood you correctly?

[Truth-Seeker]

@Michael569 Nice 

17 hours ago, Michael569 said:

but when people eat these foods their health goes up

This is good, so basically this whole idea of "you won't absorb calcium/magnesium/positively-charged-ions while eating whole grains and nuts" is nonsense?

[Michael569]

6 hours ago, Truth-Seeker said:

This is good, so basically this whole idea of "you won't absorb calcium/magnesium/positively-charged-ions while eating whole grains and nuts" is nonsense?

It's just that these things are extremely difficult to study or test. You can measure someone's calcium urine output and make some limited deductions based on that and you might be able to test serum calcium and make some deductions based on that but on their own these are not super reliable markers of how much is being absorbed as the body is always struggling hard to maintain an internal homeostasis. 

But let's give it a benefit of the doubt and say that there is some degree of calcium/potassium channel blockage, if it was severe we would see those outcomes on large human data. We would see that people eating nuts, seeds, legumes and wholegrains have advanced levels of premature osteoporosis, we would see that they have higher degree of kidney disease and maybe even other conditions that these groups would have you believe ....but the thing is we don't. 

Nearly all studies looking at what people eat over X-amount of time (called epidemiology or observational studies) show improvement of health,reduction of cardiovascular incidence, diabetes, cancer and stroke. 

On the other hand what we see is worsening of health with increased consumption of animal foods especially processed meat, beef, butter and to an extent dairy. 

And this is the same problem with seed oils. Regardless of what they sa...oxidation, peroxidative cascade, bla bla bla. Once you look at the epidemiology, these things are actually improving health when consumed in rational amounts. 

So what this boils down to is not some mechanistic speculation (e.g. this thing caused that in vitro and it makes sense mechanistically so it has to work like that in the body) but a complex biology of human bodies which cannot be replicated in lab experiments in most cases and where possible whenever discussing mechanisms we should be interested in human data first an foremost. 

In cases where there are no human data or lack thereof, mechanisms provide some basis for future research and we can discuss mice studies and rat studies but even in such cases conclusions should not be reached confidently 

[Truth-Seeker]

@Michael569 Impressive and beautiful answer. 

On 2022-02-14 at 5:50 AM, Michael569 said:

On the other hand what we see is worsening of health with increased consumption of animal foods especially processed meat, beef, butter and to an extent dairy. 

 

I eat a lot of steak (so not processed) with butter and ghee. I also eat SKYR yogurt every day. Is that bad? I make sure to take around 2g of DHA and 1g of EPA daily however to balance out those inflammatory Omega-6 fats in the beef and chicken I eat. I like eating salmon too (even though Leo says it's bad due to Mercury). 

I wanna untrain myself to hate whole grains. Basically, from your expertise, should I go back to eating roasted Almonds, roasted Peanuts, whole wheat bread, and wild rice?

[rnd]

On 14/2/2022 at 7:50 AM, Michael569 said:

On the other hand what we see is worsening of health with increased consumption of animal foods especially processed meat, beef, butter and to an extent dairy. 

Is butter harmful?

 

On 16/2/2022 at 4:50 AM, Truth-Seeker said:

I eat a lot of steak (so not processed)

How can it be eaten non processed? Red, non boiled,  non cooked, non processed at all, and with fresh blood in it?

You eat it in this way? Freshly killed cow?

Or how?

 

[Yarco]

Since no one else has explicitly said it here...

You must grind flaxseed if you want the Omega 3 and other benefits. Otherwise it's purely fiber, they will go straight through you without the outer hull coming off in your digestive system.

They also need to be ground fresh daily. You can't grind a whole bag and then store the powder, or you'll lose most of the benefits.

Toss them in a blender first and grind them up before adding the wet ingredients. Otherwise they probably won't get ground.