Self Inquiry Questions

[Nahm]

19 minutes ago, softlyblossoming said:

I thought I was supposed to treat the feeling of being "me" as merely yet another wrong answer to the question (and the same with any sensation), so when it came up, to look for who is observing it, then who is observing that observation, and so on and so forth. 

Feeling isn’t a thought. Right & wrong are thoughts.

The instruction is not to ‘look for who is observing it’, or to think about an infinite regress of observers… but is - simply & naturally - to effortlessly focus on the feeling. 

Quote

Why is just keeping attention on the feeling of being "me" enough in this version?

Because, the feeling of you is enough. The rest is just thoughts. 

Quote

Isn't this just concentration?

No. None is needed or advised.

Relax! Enjoy the practice! Life is supposed to be fun! If you got something more fun to do, do that - and make a mental note of the feeling. 

For self inquiry, allow the enjoying to be the point, and that feeling’s gonna be much easer to focus on, as it’s more produced in alignment with enjoyment. 

Quote

Can keeping the mind one-pointed like this with no further effort to investigate really lead to enlightenment?

Let all thoughts go. The practice is to feel. Be most careful to let thoughts go, which are about “a point” or “purpose”. Let expectations go. 

Also, consider looking at this list of meditations, and notice the skipping over of all the other suggestions. There’s no right or wrong, but, self inquiry is more readily enjoyable when the previous meditations have been experienced. Just look the list over, and if it seems like one or two might be advantageous, give them a few minutes of attention. Check em out. 

[softlyblossoming]

Cheers again, @Nahm.

Before I forget, how fast do I need to notice the feeling of being "me"? Only asking because Daniel Ingram (in his book, Mastering The Core Teachings of The Buddha) told me I have to notice experiential reality really really fast to get enlightened. Should I even care about noticing it fast?

Wishing you a nice mid week. Thank you!

[Nahm]

Just now, softlyblossoming said:

Should I even care about noticing it fast?

No. I’d consider it an expectation, the activity of thought, and return attention to the feeling. 

??

[softlyblossoming]

Just now, Nahm said:

No. I’d consider it an expectation, the activity of thought, and return attention to the feeling. 

Impeccable distinction drawing, I hadn't noticed that I was sneakily manipulating the advice to go about expecting things from myself and my practice. Do you, by chance, know of a list of other hidden seeker expectations? I feel like that could be a game changer.

??

[Nahm]

@softlyblossoming

Well… basically, ‘thought’ is the trap. Not to imply thought is ‘bad’, but in terms of focusing on feeling… it’s a matter of ‘catching’ or noticing when attention has ‘strayed’ to thought, and just gently, effortlessly returning attention to feeling. 

[The0Self]

2 hours ago, softlyblossoming said:

I thought I was supposed to treat the feeling of being "me" as merely yet another wrong answer to the question

The feeling of being me is what you turn toward whenever a thought/object appears.

Withdraw attention from everything but that.

It's just that the mind may trick you into what that is, so if it appears to you, withdraw attention from the thought external to you, and fix it in the self.

But yeah, not as a sort of infinite regress or stressful practice -- rather a gentle technique of simply turning away from thoughts and just feeling that you are... in order to facilitate self attention in this way it can be useful to: (to the exclusion of all else) very simply inquire into how you know that you are.

Edited February 9, 2022 by The0Self

[softlyblossoming]

@Nahm @The0Self I know I've said it a bunch, but thanks so much to both of you, honestly. I've been really pushing myself to learn this technique and clocked over 20 hours of formal practice last week, so this has all really made my day! I know I haven't stopped asking either of you questions all bloody week, but...

1. What do you think about trying to get closer to the feeling of "me" to derive the nature, or essence, of it? Good idea or am I overcomplicating things again?
2. Are there any significant teachers, technique variants, videos or books on self inquiry that you'd highly recommend I take out for a spin?

[The0Self]

@softlyblossoming

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e_HgOsAU5_I&list=PLPevnGcuhdhwKpaWaEW4bZCl4ZEJnkzO2&index=1

[softlyblossoming]

@The0Self Ah yes, a mighty fine and chunky playlist fit for any a dedicated seeker.

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, softlyblossoming said:

Thanks for such an in-depth elaboration, @VeganAwake.

No prob

Oh my gosh, the illusion is so strong!

Well it's not so much that an illusion is strong because it isn't real.... it's that it's been building and layering sort of speak since a young age and completely assumed as the identity there no questions asked.

Should I steer clear of the good or only the bad attributes of the ego?

Well whats being said is there already isn't a real YOU to make that choice to begin with.

The very idea that there are real good or bad attributes IS itself an attribute of the conditioned illusion of self.

Yes, but gosh darn it moves too fast to notice! I also feel a sensation that I'm making the movement happen at the exact same time while it happens. How the heck do I even begin to notice that things are just happening on their own?

It just happens whether or not it seems to be noticed!

Is just remembering this and strongly holding it as a belief enough to count as a recognition of no self?

Well that would just be another attempt by the self illusion/ego to get what it thinks is lacking.....but simultaneously it seems that it can sometimes also loosen up this tightly wound self construct/ego....it's unknowable.

 If not, how should I go about this recognising business? Are repeated recognitions enough to reach enlightenment?

It's just not a something to be reached by a someone....that's the whole conundrum for the ego.

It's the end of the very individual which believes enlightenment is a real happening for an individual.

P.s. Have a wonderful hump day 

Thanks & have a good rest of the week also.

❤ 

 

[Nahm]

9 hours ago, softlyblossoming said:

@Nahm @The0Self I know I've said it a bunch, but thanks so much to both of you, honestly. I've been really pushing myself to learn this technique and clocked over 20 hours of formal practice last week, so this has all really made my day! I know I haven't stopped asking either of you questions all bloody week, but...

1. What do you think about trying to get closer to the feeling of "me" to derive the nature, or essence, of it? Good idea or am I overcomplicating things again?

It’s not really an over-complicating of anything, but more of a habit of much focus on thought… just relax and focus on feeling.  

Quote

1. Are there any significant teachers,

Rupert Spira, Esther Hicks, Ramana Maharishi. 

Quote

1. technique variants,

Generally… Clean eating, daily meditation & use of the emotional scale, and make a dreamboard.

Specific to self inquiry…

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/self-inquiry

Quote

1. videos or books on self inquiry that you'd highly recommend I take out for a spin?

No. Just the feeling. 

? 

[Wilhelm44]

"Where is everything arising from ?"

 

[softlyblossoming]

@VeganAwake Stupendously helpful, sir! My overall take-away from what you said was: no asker, no question, no problem.

@Nahm Thank you, man, thank you! I think I'm starting to grok what you're telling me: I focus on the feeling of being me with a silent mind, but then I have the thought "let's unceasingly whittle this little bad boy down" and proceed to make myself forget whatever I had been feeling and refocus on a "more refined version of it," which in actuality is just another thought that came up very shortly after I'd 'refocused', so it's like I'm sorta unnecessarily refocusing for no reason (because all the reasons I do it for are more distractions from feeling the feeling). Heck, I think I might actually be starting to wrap my silly little head around this technique (for better or worse ). I'll be sure to check out Mrs. Hicks work.

@Wilhelm44 The one true "doer," I like it. Thank you, Wilhelm, I'm experimenting with this right now haha.

A few questions for all three of ya's (I'm sorry, I know I'm being a total free advice whore right now):

1. Is self inquiry a type of glimpse practice/pointing-out instruction? Or is this at least what it ought to become like eventually?
2. Is the feeling of being "me" the same as awareness the same as śūnyatā?
3. What is the usefulness, in your honest opinion, of using the feeling of being "me" instead of some other object? How is it more direct? Why won't any old meditation object work the same?

Edited February 10, 2022 by softlyblossoming

[peanutspathtotruth]

On 07/02/2022 at 8:18 PM, Tim R said:

I don't ask myself anything. And to be honest, I never really understood why people would sit there and repetitively ask themselves things like "who am I?" or "who is observing?"

I try to feel into whatever it is I'm inquiring.  Feel into existence, feel into awareness, feel into perception, feel into the body, feel into thought, feel into emotions. But without labelling them as such and without a questioning mind. 

By feeling I don't mean "emotion". I mean the absolutely raw, unmediated, unprocessed quality of experience, completely merging into the "that-ness" of reality. 

This really speaks most to me and mirrors my own experience. It's the technique that is explored in depth in "Spacecruiser Inquiry" by Almaas. Basically, it comes down to this:

• Just be with whatever is in the moment
• Be curious and loving towards whatever the primary experience in the moment is. Primary means that when a painful feeling is present and "loud"/intense, this is the primary experience. If all thought is silent and emptiness is most prevalent, that is the primary experience. Whatever attention naturally wanders upon, this is what is inquired into. There is no manipulating or directing of attention. All is reality, and so whatever presents itself is the focus of the inquiry.
• Don't do anything to the experience you're inquiring. Don't ask anything, don't try to change anything, don't try to get rid of the experience, don't expect any revelation. Just stay with whatever is, imbue it with attention (naturally, not by doing something), and remember the curiosity and love you feel for reality.

That's it. Plain and simple. When you inquire into anything in your experience, it ultimately ALWAYS leads to the Self. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by peanutspathtotruth

[softlyblossoming]

@peanutspathtotruth That's such a cool explanation and it totally aligns with what I've learned from self inquiry so far, which is that I'm not located anywhere particular (existentially, at least, because I still feel like "just me") and how my attitude I bring to the practice is of real importance. And thanks for the book recommendation.

[Wilhelm44]

@softlyblossoming  What fascinates you most about your direct experience ? Contemplate that.

Fascination becomes more and more subtle. It draws you in naturally. 

No end to wonder and awe really.

[VeganAwake]

17 hours ago, softlyblossoming said:

My overall take-away from what you said was: no asker, no question, no problem.

Yep that's exactly it but illusion of self/Ego will never accept it...it hates this answer because it doesn't leave a leg for it to stand on.... it wants there to be away or a method because it thinks it can become enlightened. 

And in that sense it gets in its own way because enlightenment is the end of this illusory identification.

A few questions for all three of ya's (I'm sorry, I know I'm being a total free advice whore right now):

1. Is self inquiry a type of glimpse practice/pointing-out instruction? Or is this at least what it ought to become like eventually?
2. Is the feeling of being "me" the same as awareness the same as śūnyatā?
3. What is the usefulness, in your honest opinion, of using the feeling of being "me" instead of some other object? How is it more direct? Why won't any old meditation object work the same?

There's nothing right or wrong with any practice or method.

But if there was a real goal to spiritual practice it would be: The recognition that the very individual attempting to awaken is completely unreal.

❤ 

[Godishere]

@VeganAwake @VeganAwake @Nahm so... If the individual/ego/self is completely unreal. What is it? What are the sensations, perceptions, thoughts, feelings of I? What is this I? Because for example, you can have a psychedelic trip and realise this illusory nature of the self. But then you come back to the sober state or "yourself" and they are now just thoughts/ideas and memories about what happened(occuring now). 

So what are the feelings and not the thoughts of being I? If I self inquire, and focus on feeling(sober state) my body is still here? The room is still here? Do I need to "still" the thoughts more, or is enlightenment or the dropping of the self something that just happens without any force or tentative effort? Must I completely drop the idea and concept of "seeking" altogether?

It's definitely confusing when multiple sources say different things on here in regards to what actual enlightenment IS and means. It seems more intuitive to me that you can't "know" what enlightenment is but Leo seems to think otherwise.

[Nahm]

8 hours ago, Godishere said:

@VeganAwake @VeganAwake @Nahm so... If the individual/ego/self is completely unreal. What is it? What are the sensations, perceptions, thoughts, feelings of I? What is this I?

Quote

Because for example, you can have a psychedelic trip and realise this illusory nature of the self.

Not believing self referential thoughts…..

Quote

But then you come back to the sober state or "yourself" and they are now just thoughts/ideas and memories about what happened(occuring now).

… believing self referential thoughts. 

Quote

 

So what are the feelings and not the thoughts of being I?

Quote

If I self inquire, and focus on feeling(sober state) my body is still here? The room is still here? Do I need to "still" the thoughts more, or is enlightenment or the dropping of the self something that just happens without any force or tentative effort? Must I completely drop the idea and concept of "seeking" altogether?

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/self-inquiry

Quote

It's definitely confusing when multiple sources say different things on here in regards to what actual enlightenment IS and means. It seems more intuitive to me that you can't "know" what enlightenment is but Leo seems to think otherwise.

?

[Guru Fat Bastard]

 Right now, If  someone were to  walk up to you and ask the question "are you present" or "is it your direct experience that you are present right now"?, What would you say? Check your experience.
Btw, "direct experience" means, the direct knowledge of , and/or, the direct awareness of.  You dont have to go through a second medium such as the mind,body,senses etc.,