I'm confused: is pickup high or low consciousness?

[thenondualtankie]

The thing with pickup is that a lot of the times it's viewed as this low-consciousness endeavour. In many ways it is: chasing women is quite an animalistic thing to do in general. In particular, here is a list of things I find to be "low consciousness" about pickup, though there are definitely more things than this:

•  The fact that there are "games" that we need to play in order to communicate sexual attraction to women.
• I don't know how true this is, but it is true to an extent: women prefer aggressive assholes to dudes that are purely nice (if they had to pick between those two extremes).
• The ego-boosting that often comes with getting a lay. You're using concepts to make yourself feel like you're the absolute shit.

At the same time though, I would say there are many high-consciousness attributes of pickup in general and even the pickup community in general. What I say about the pickup community isn't really based on extensive familiarity with it though, moreso just a few pickup youtube channels I've seen:

• Facing social anxiety
• Being able to fully express who you are
• Learning to instantly connect with strangers
• Improvement of self-esteem - interestingly, maybe improvement of self-esteem and the "ego-boost" quality are two sides of the same coin, but one side is considered "high-consciousness" and the other low! 

I'm just baffled that pickup, considered to be low-consciousness by many, actually has many high-consciousness attributes. It's funny that a lot of pickup people on YouTube that I've seen basically say that the best part of pickup is the part where you're in a state of total self-expression. I've also heard this warning a lot that getting laid won't suddenly fix all your problems etc. 

[Gili Trawangan]

1 hour ago, thenondualtankie said:

You're using concepts to make yourself feel like you're the absolute shit.

This includes the concepts of high and low consciousness

If what you do comes out of love/passion, and you do your best to follow the golden rule, I'd say you're fine.

[something_else]

For many men I would say the benefits outweigh the negatives

It's kind of like money. Yea, having billions of dollars isn't really high consciousness per se, nor will it fulfill you, but having no money at all will cause you many many problems

In the same way if you lack social skills, can't get laid, can't attract girls, can't find a relationship etc. you will find it very hard to move towards any other higher consciousness pursuits

[Ulax]

The thing is 'pick-up' doesn't exist. There is no 'pick-up' to say as low/ high consciousness.

There are lots of different approaches that are labelled as pick-up, and they differ massively.

Some are predatory. Some are non-predatory, but just about getting validation. Some are about using pick-up as a means of achieving profound life changes.

I think the last version is pickup in its most amazing form, and what the better parts of RSD were always about. To me, pick up was always about emancipation for a demographic of guys who were thrown a tough deck of hands in life.

[Nahm]

The Good News: Consciousness is infinite. 

Manipulation isn’t really ‘high or low’ consciousness. It’s just, manipulation. Dogma is also not ‘high or low consciousness’. Dogma is just, dogma. 

[Dryas]

I think one shouldn’t obsess over the distinction in general. Wheat from chaff. 

[aurum]

15 hours ago, thenondualtankie said:

The thing with pickup is that a lot of the times it's viewed as this low-consciousness endeavour. In many ways it is: chasing women is quite an animalistic thing to do in general. In particular, here is a list of things I find to be "low consciousness" about pickup, though there are definitely more things than this:

•  The fact that there are "games" that we need to play in order to communicate sexual attraction to women.
• I don't know how true this is, but it is true to an extent: women prefer aggressive assholes to dudes that are purely nice (if they had to pick between those two extremes).
• The ego-boosting that often comes with getting a lay. You're using concepts to make yourself feel like you're the absolute shit.

At the same time though, I would say there are many high-consciousness attributes of pickup in general and even the pickup community in general. What I say about the pickup community isn't really based on extensive familiarity with it though, moreso just a few pickup youtube channels I've seen:

• Facing social anxiety
• Being able to fully express who you are
• Learning to instantly connect with strangers
• Improvement of self-esteem - interestingly, maybe improvement of self-esteem and the "ego-boost" quality are two sides of the same coin, but one side is considered "high-consciousness" and the other low! 

I'm just baffled that pickup, considered to be low-consciousness by many, actually has many high-consciousness attributes. It's funny that a lot of pickup people on YouTube that I've seen basically say that the best part of pickup is the part where you're in a state of total self-expression. I've also heard this warning a lot that getting laid won't suddenly fix all your problems etc. 

Yeah it’s complicated.

How “conscious” you do pickup will depend on your level of consciousness.

I know a lot of guys that did pickup from a very low consciousness place. The personal growth was marginal. They basically just drank and partied like any other guy, but also read some theory.

But you could also use pickup as leverage to really grow yourself. And I did see that as well, although it was more rare.

So pickup will be as low or high consciousness as you make it. If you want it to be high consciousness, you need to be clear about that and not compromise.
For instance, I would never drink when I did cold approach because I saw that as affecting my goal of becoming more socially confident and building my skillset. I would do my best to be as honest and upfront with the girl as possible. And I made sure that I continued doing spiritual work so as to not lose my head.

I would set similar rules for yourself based on what you feel is important.

Edited February 7, 2022 by aurum

[Leo Gura]

It's pretty low con overall. But it does force one to grow as a man because it is so challenging. And there can be some high con aspects to it if you do it right.

It's basically learning how to socialize. And socialization is pretty low con overall.

[Michal__]

It's preparation for high consciousness.

[Lyubov]

Is eating food low or high con? I guess if it's purely McDonald's, low? It's just silly to even ponder. Just live with integrity and do your best to fulfill your needs, experience what you would like to experience and learn from life. You wanna meet women and have sex? Then go out and meet them and do it. Are you not getting the results you'd like? Well clearly then you're missing something and are going to have to change or let go of something. That's where male dating advice comes in for guys who are socially clueless. 

[zazen]

Everything has a karmic affect, actions have consequences. Ironically, once people learn red pill they learn the affects 'spinning plates' etc has on women psyche, but the same community then go ahead and prescribe each other to do the same. They create the culture they complain about. Unfortunately, because a sizeable proportion of society in Western liberal cities are openly sexual and the sexual market is unregulated, mens only reaction is to learn pick up in order to obtain a relationship in the first place, but then the act of pick up creates even worse conditions devolving society in a vicious cycle. To get a girl you need to be good with girls in general, but becoming good with girls leads you to alpha widowing girls, imprinting them and that causes them to not be happy in future relationships as they then need to 'settle'. They end up not being happy in those relationships, divorcing, and ruining a guys life, kids etc and those kids end up acting up as coping mechanism and the cycle continues downward generationally. 

 

''As a guy or even just a functional member of society, it’s important to realize that female slutshaming isn’t the product of some deep self-loathing or in-group hatred. Rather, it is as prevalent as it is because a promiscuous rival is a woman’s biggest threat to keeping a good boyfriend. “Sluts” aren’t derogated because women are uncomfortable with their sexuality; it’s because they’re experts at mate poaching, which is a very real threat to most women. Female promiscuity also has a “tragedy of the commons” effect in the mating market. If one woman offers blowjobs on the second date, it’s harder for other women to keep them in reserve until the fourth date as their special treat. This creates a downward spiral of young women feeling like they have to offer more and more sex to more and more guys just to stay in the mating game. Thus, slutshaming is a way of enforcing a more restrained sexual norm on other women so that not all women have to become more promiscuous than any of them would like.''

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by zazen

[RMQualtrough]

Extremely low. Not that it matters...

[Leo Gura]

On 2/9/2022 at 8:36 AM, zazen said:

If one woman offers blowjobs on the second date, it’s harder for other women to keep them in reserve until the fourth date as their special treat.

Hahaha

If only people knew of the 20 min BJs my wings get in bathrooms from girls with bfs.

[Karmadhi]

40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Hahaha

If only people knew of the 20 min BJs my wings get in bathrooms from girls with bfs.

Which is why in Red Pill guys do not let their girlfriends go in clubs if they also are not there. How do you exactly avoid your girlfriend sucking some random dick if you are not there. Or are those girls just bad eggs?

These stories really make me suspicious. How would you feel if your gf told you to go on a club with her friends and you know exactly this sort of stuff happens in clubs? No matter how good your game is, she will probably meet some other guy with better game than you. Especially if she is attractive and gets hit on by a lot of guys.

I really dislike the idea of controlling girls but if this is the results of you letting them loose, then idk what to say.

 

[Bando]

2 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

How would you feel if your gf told you to go on a club with her friends and you know exactly this sort of stuff happens in clubs? No matter how good your game is, she will probably meet some other guy with better game than you

Naw thats not how it works in "real life" i've had some crazy experiences before and what they don't tell you is how it many approaches it takes to get a girl who's willing to escalate that far with a person they just met. You hear how one guy can pull in 5 minutes but don't see the other 30-40 girls who turned down his advances before.

A majority of women dont go to clubs expecting to suck a strangers dick or have ons they want to go out with their friends, receive validations from others and enjoy themselves. Most women will try to prevent their friend from escalating too far with other guys so thats another barrier. Most women don't want to cheat on men they respect

[Leo Gura]

49 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Which is why in Red Pill guys do not let their girlfriends go in clubs if they also are not there. How do you exactly avoid your girlfriend sucking some random dick if you are not there.

I would certainly not let my gf go to a Vegas club by herself.

35 minutes ago, Bando said:

A majority of women dont go to clubs expecting to suck a strangers dick

No girl expects to suck a stranger's dick. But it happens quite frequenty. Girls take no responsibility for sex happening. It's just an accident in their heads.

[wildflower]

Pickup is about as low consciousness as you get lol, its tool is the same with all other rock bottoms, the path brings you to a point where the are no other options but to wake up, Leo is just reverberating his own delusions to you guys and harming you all. 

There is nothing but harm, selfishness, and suffering in pickup, and if you have a even modicum of consciousness this will be patently obvious

The reason why most people do it when young, is because your are in a low conscious state lol, Leo is 36/37 and still stuck in the same baseline state of consciousness as a 21 year old

[something_else]

7 minutes ago, wildflower said:

Pickup is about as low consciousness as you get lol

What about if you're a dude who can't get into a relationship or attract girls because of their shy personality or poor looks? Are they as low consciousness as you can get for doing something like pickup?

[Karmadhi]

Just now, something_else said:

What about if you're a dude who can't get into a relationship or attract girls because of their shy personality or poor looks? Are they as low consciousness as you can get for doing something like pickup?

His point is that sex itself is a low consciouss things and it is tbh. It is the base of Maslow Hierarchy of Needs and it is totally based on animalistic institcs that have nothing to do with any sort of development. The lowest consciouss animals, perform sex.

At least that is my take on it.

Pick up basically is about such an activity (getting sex).

Now what these people dont understand is that unless this need is somewhat met then you will always struggle to grow yourself further.

Low conscioussness is not always bad, i notice this forum has this bias where everything "low consciouss" is automatically bad.

Fear of a lion is low consciouss yet it keeps you alive.

[Michal__]

Is eating food low consciousness?