On mine & leo's spiritual path

[FlyingLotus]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

i think that if you have the attention of millions of people, it's normal to be cold and distant. the other option would be to go crazy. I can't imagine what it would be like to have that attention, alienating

Totally.  If I was Leo I wouldn’t post on this forum at all.  I'd just focus on releasing great content, not that I want him to get any bright ideas and leave!

Edited February 6, 2022 by FlyingLotus

[Nahm]

8 hours ago, Neph said:

@Nahm just in case you don't know but kundalini is real.. Just because you haven't experienced it yet doesn't mean it's not there... And I stopped try to cry about it long time ago.. This is life & I have to take it as it is.. I'm just trying to bring awareness about this stuff so that no one else suffers like I do... 

It’s you who awakens, not a ‘my kundalini’, which causes or acts anything upon you. Just to be clear, I was not saying you were ‘crying about it’, I was referencing another user who colored your op in such a way. 

@FlyingLotus

A lot could be said, but perhaps the simplest most straightforward way is to simply ask you, why it is that none of the following ‘works’ have a single warning about ‘the dangers of spirituality’? (Feel free to reference their youtube videos as well). 

https://www.dalailama.com/the-dalai-lama

https://teachingsofthebuddha.com/

https://adyashanti.opengatesangha.org/

https://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/

https://www.miguelruiz.com/

https://thework.com/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTBZHxp9PrUjD1BnbDBZLoQ

http://www.simply-this.com/

https://www.lifewithoutacentre.com/

https://rupertspira.com/

https://www.abraham-hicks.com/

https://eckharttolle.com/

https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/

Also, if interested… why do you suppose not a single one of these people are demeaning each other asserting they are the higher conscious, or the highest conscious? 

[mememe]

@Nahm lol, well some of them should.

[Nahm]

@mememe

Why?

[mememe]

@Nahm especially the one with the lamas, lol. lamas spit.

[Whatever]

4 minutes ago, mememe said:

@Nahm especially the one with the lamas, lol. lamas spit.

When in doubt how to defend ones views, make jokes. Try to redicule others point. 

[mememe]

14 minutes ago, Whatever said:

When in doubt how to defend ones views, make jokes. Try to redicule others point. 

you can’t compare what leo is doing with the most of these people mentioned.

most of them have „an additional“ web presence. some of them probably have many more followers than leo has, with a much broader publicity. the dalai lama is an approved head of a traditional ethnical spiritual school which teaches since centuries, without him leo and you maybe wouldn’t even know how eastern spirituality can be practiced. maybe wouldn’t know what high energetic vibes are or how they feel.

Edited February 6, 2022 by mememe

[FlyingLotus]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

why it is that none of the following ‘works’ have a single warning about ‘the dangers of spirituality’?

     -Leo can afford to release episodes about the risks of spirituality because his revenue is based on Youtube clicks, not selling products.  Those teachers are selling mainstream products (many of them are good products!)  It’s not smart marketing to tell customers all the stuff that could go wrong with the stuff they’re buying .   

     -Those teachers mostly teach meditation, lectures and journalling, which have a lot less risk than psychedelics.  However, as Neph’s case shows, meditation still has dangers.  The fact that those teachers don’t say anything about the risks of their work is negligent on their part.

     -Leo’s videos are very clear about the risks involved with various spiritual practices.  His forums posts might not always be clear, but is it really his fault if people willfully choose to ignore his videos and don’t do proper research?

     -Some Youtuber isn’t going to help Neph with his problems as effectively as family, friends and an in person therapist.  It’s good for Neph’s well-being to be honest about that instead of Leo coddling and lying to him out of guilt.

     -I do think that anyone who’s experiencing suicidal ideation deserves compassion and help, but they don’t have the right to manipulate people and threaten suicide because they’re in pain.  It's not in their own best interest to get rewarded for that behavior. 

     -My heart goes out to Neph.  I feel sorry that he has to go through this situation.  I’m glad his condition has stabilized and it’s awesome that you’ve offered to help him ?.  However, Leo still has the right to not become his close, personal, one-on-one, unpaid guru.

Edited February 6, 2022 by FlyingLotus

[Nahm]

20 minutes ago, FlyingLotus said:

     -Leo can afford to release episodes about the risks of spirituality because his revenue is based on Youtube clicks, not selling products.  Those teachers are selling mainstream products (many of them are good products!)  It’s not smart marketing to tell customers all the stuff that could go wrong with the stuff they’re buying .   

Are you saying the reason not a single other spiritual teacher on that list warns against ‘the dangers of spirituality’ and Leo does, is money?  

I’m not following your logic here. Had you said he can’t afford not to, because his income is contingent on clicks, that would seem logical. 

Can you explain further how, because he can afford to, is the reason he ‘warns against the dangers of spirituality’, and none of the other teachers do? 

Quote

     -Those teachers mostly teach meditation, lectures and journalling, which have a lot less risk than psychedelics.  However, as Neph’s case shows, meditation still has dangers.  The fact that those teachers don’t say anything about the risks of their work is negligent on their part.

How is meditation the cause of ‘the dangers’? 

How is psychedelics the cause of ‘the dangers’? 

How is Leo (implied) “teaching psychedelics”? 

I’ve taken em. Seems like the psychedelic essentially is the teacher. So to speak, not one single person ever said a single thing to me about psychedelics, to this day, maybe two hundred or more trips, not one single iota of ‘dangers of spirituality’, or ‘dangers of psychedelics’.  Never projected a single thought onto the psychedelics, let a lot of beliefs and behaviors, like projection, go. 

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     -Leo’s videos are very clear about the risks involved with various spiritual practices.  His forums posts might not always be clear, but is it really his fault if people willfully choose to ignore his videos and don’t do proper research?

This is circular logic. The ‘risks involved’ are the content. 

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     -Some Youtuber isn’t going to help Neph with his problems as effectively as family, friends and an in person therapist.  It’s good for Neph’s well-being to be honest about that instead of Leo coddling and lying to him out of guilt.

Helping one to recognize thought attachment is “coddling and lying out of guilt”? Not following that logic either. Seems like a justification via an implication of intensity limited options. 

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     -I do think that anyone who’s experiencing suicidal ideation deserves compassion and help, but they don’t have the right to manipulate people and threaten suicide because they’re in pain.  It's not in their own best interest to get rewarded for that behavior. 

I see the user mentioned an attempted suicide. I do not see the “manipulating people” or the “threatening suicide”. I might be missing that though, the thread’s a bit long. 

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     -My heart goes out to Neph.  I feel sorry that he has to go through this situation.  I’m glad his condition has stabilized and it’s awesome that you’ve offered to help him ?.  However, Leo still has the right to not become his close, personal, one-on-one guru.

If one is commenting, why does not demeaning someone equal “becoming his close, personal, one-on-one guru”? 

[Neph]

@Droo_ I didn't even know it was called kundalini.. I figured it out it's called chi from the movies the closest I got to it's called prana.. I got to to know that this energy called kundalini much later.. I'm looking for a guru who can guide me.. Currently I'm not in touch with such people

[FlyingLotus]

4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

If one is commenting, why does not demeaning someone equal “becoming his close, personal, one-on-one guru”?

I don't think he was demeaning him.  I think he was setting a clear, healthy boundary about what he would and would not do.  YMMV.

5 minutes ago, Nahm said:

How is meditation the cause of ‘the dangers’? 

Neph said he did lots of meditation which created problems with his kundalini.  Sounds pretty dangerous to me.

6 minutes ago, Nahm said:

How is Leo (implied) “teaching psychedelics”? 

I’ve taken em. Seems like the psychedelic essentially is the teacher.

Leo teaches about psychedelics.  I personally would've never found out about them if I hadn't watched Actualized.org.  Yes psychedelics are the teacher, but you can't use them if you don't know about them.

 

10 minutes ago, Nahm said:

How is psychedelics the cause of ‘the dangers’? 

Psychedelics will mess you up if you take too many.  They're more dangerous than journaling or meditating.  It's good that Leo describes them as a "loaded gun."

 

8 minutes ago, Nahm said:

I might be missing that though, the thread’s a bit long.

Yes, there's also more than one thread.  I'd prefer to leave Neph alone about this and just wish him well on his healing journey.  

[mememe]

@Neph you could strart with yoga and chakra work. go to a kundalini class. maybe you‘ll find a guru along the way. stay careful about who you then completely trust, a lot of teachers plus one you then maybe one day find, who you favor, is better than trusting one.

Edited February 6, 2022 by mememe

[FlyingLotus]

33 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Can you explain further how, because he can afford to

Leo can be honest about the dangers of, say, meditation because he's not selling meditation books, or seminars or retreats, unlike other teachers.  He's also not mainstream so he doesn't have to worry as much about bad PR or newspapers sensationalizing his words.  

He gets paid when you click on the video.  Once you've clicked the video that revenue is his, whether you like what he has to say or not.  That's why he can be honest about the dangers of meditation, or psychedelics.  He's not selling potentially dangerous products like meditation or psychedelics.  His income doesn't depend on you liking meditation or psychedelics.   So he's free to discuss why they're dangerous.

 

It's like when he talked about Pick Up in his "How To Get Laid" episode.  PUAs are selling tons of courses, but Leo is not.  So when PUAs hype up PU and only talk about the good stuff, you have to question their motives. 

Leo has no financial incentive to hype up PU because he's not selling some course.  It's easier to assume his video on PU is genuine because he's not financially motivated to only say good things.    

Edited February 6, 2022 by FlyingLotus

[Nahm]

36 minutes ago, FlyingLotus said:

I don't think he was demeaning him.  I think he was setting a clear, healthy boundary about what he would and would not do.  YMMV.

“I am not your babysitter” imply’s you are or are being or are acting like a baby, and or are in need of a baby sitter. 

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Neph said he did lots of meditation which created problems with his kundalini.  Sounds pretty dangerous to me.

I get the ‘to me’ factor. I’m asking you literally how.

How does meditation create problems? 

What is “his kundalini”, literally?

How does “meditation create problems with his kundalini”? 

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Leo teaches about psychedelics.  I personally would've never found out about them if I hadn't watched Actualized.org.  Yes psychedelics are the teacher, but you can't use them if you don't know about them.

How do you actually know that’s true, that you would have never found out about them? Psychedelics are in countless movies and songs. 

I used them plenty, without ever having heard of ‘the dangers’ or actualized.org, and never experienced any “dangers”. A lot of insight, humility, and letting go of projection, seeing through thought attachment, but no dangers. 

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Psychedelics will mess you up if you take too many.  They're more dangerous than journaling or meditating.  It's good that Leo describes them as a "loaded gun."

Yes, there's also more than one thread.  I'd prefer to leave Neph alone about this and just wish him well on his healing journey.  

How, more literally, from direct experience, do psychedelics “mess you up”? 

What is “the you” which psychedelics are said to “mess up”? 

Precisely how do “psychedelics mess you up”?

Are you open to the possibility that maybe you just, didn’t notice?

 

If you’re willing & interested, why didn’t you answer my follow up question about the logic & money?

[FlyingLotus]

27 minutes ago, Nahm said:

I get the ‘to me’ factor. I’m asking you literally how.

How does meditation create problems? 

What is “his kundalini”, literally?

How does “meditation create problems with his kundalini”? 

This is based on what Neph had to say about his own suffering and his own experience.  I've never had problems with meditation or kundalini.  I'm assuming Neph is being honest about his own experience.  

 

27 minutes ago, Nahm said:

“I am not your babysitter” imply’s you are or are being or are acting like a baby, and or are in need of a baby sitter.

That doesn't sound demeaning to me.  That sounds like a very needed wake-up call.  YMMV.

 

27 minutes ago, Nahm said:

A lot of insight, humility, and letting go of projection, seeing through thought attachment, but no dangers. 

Sounds like you've only had safe, enlightening trips.  You're lucky.  That's not most people's experience.

 

As for the psychedelics talk, other posters were saying Leo is reckless about psychedelics safety.  I disagree.  He talks about the safe use of psychedelics a lot.  He has many episodes about it.   That's why psychedelics were brought up.

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by FlyingLotus

[mememe]

@Nahm one of the reasons i got hooked by actualized.org is because of the lax psychedelics policy. i know plenty of people who messed up their psyche with drugs - i know plenty who didn’t, only some can take them repeatedly while staying sane to a point. i doubt its the best choice for a forum who has a section about depression and psychological issues. there is one case of suicide connected to the forum where someone tried to heal himself using psychedelics instead of seeking psychological, psychatrical help. psychedelics further create confusion while some people need more clarity. its mainly for people who already had a stick up their a** and not exactly for creative people with already issues getting along with reality. if someone is already floating in space sober, you don’t tell them to let go of security lines, because then the experience would be so much more exciting.

worst case scenario after letting go,    flying away with the spaceship, because there are other exciting realities to explore.

@FlyingLotus leo doesn’t teach much about psychedelics in the videos, it’s not the reason why people start writing in the forum. most do because they have some issues to deal with, or because they made the step to buy the life purpose course. 

Edited February 6, 2022 by mememe

[FlyingLotus]

36 minutes ago, Nahm said:

why didn’t you answer my follow up question about the logic & money?

I didn't see your question.  I don't think those teachers are only motivated by money, but money and marketing is part of it.  They're probably motivated by many things.

Edited February 6, 2022 by FlyingLotus

[FlyingLotus]

8 minutes ago, mememe said:

it’s not the reason why people start writing in the forum. most do because they have some issues to deal with, or because they made the step to buy the life purpose course. 

I do think I've overestimated how much people actually watch his videos from beginning to end.  I enjoy his videos more than the forum, so I was assuming other people felt the same.  

I'm sorry you've had bad psychedelic trips.  That sucks 

[mememe]

24 minutes ago, FlyingLotus said:

I do think I've overestimated how much people actually watch his videos from beginning to end.  I enjoy his videos more than the forum, so I was assuming other people felt the same.  

I'm sorry you've had bad psychedelic trips.  That sucks 

no literally i saw people who got beaten and living on the streets because they couldn’t come down anymore.

for a long time i thought it was a good alternative to other drugs, which is why i didn’t speak up against it, much more. but it’s not ok if more and more think it’s a way out of their personal melancholia/trauma/psychosis not having touched any drugs before in their life at all.

Edited February 6, 2022 by mememe

[Carl-Richard]

51 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Whatever she is holding in her hands looks very much like Psilocybe semilanceata